Is anyone voting for Gary Johnson this year? I`m voting for him.

Nate WatkinsOriginal Poster

Oct 17, 2016

I don't know about you guys but Trump's an egomaniac and Hillary's a cronyist and crooked.

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ManOfWicklow
Oct 17, 2016
[quote]I don't know about you guys but Trump's an egomaniac and Hillary's a cronyist and crooked.[/quote]Show me a Politician that's not crooked, and I'll show you a Priest that's straight. Better the Devil you know, vote Hillary and put some sanity back in Office.
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Tom === Thomas S. Tierney
Oct 17, 2016
[quote] [quote]I don't know about you guys but Trump's an egomaniac and Hillary's a cronyist and crooked.[/quote]Show mea Politician that's not crooked,and I'll show you a Priest that's straight. Better the Devil you know, vote Hillary and put some sanity back in Office.
[/quote]Show mea Politician that's not crooked,
Hillary IS a politician. Hillary IS the wife of a politician. Hillary has been a politician for most of her life.

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NatureBoy24
Oct 17, 2016
I'm most likely going to vote for Johnson.

Hillary is a big government Democrat - she supports the TPP, wants to federalize more of our government, and is a Wall Street puppet. Besides the numerous scandals she's been associated with over many years, the Clinton Foundation & State Department issues, and the DNC's clear skewing of the primaries.

Trump has no governing experience. He may be a good business man, but the halls of government are very different. Policy-wise, I am happy that he is very anti-TPP and has a strong "America first" stance on trade & treaties. He does have the appeal of being a charismatic outsider who says he'll go in and shake things up - that didn't work out so well for Obama. Oh, and he's a crass, womanizing cad. That goes to the question of "Is this the sort of person I want representing my country?" No. Many people don't seem to mind those things; I do.

So if the two major candidates are unacceptable, that leaves Johnson - pro-drug legalization, experienced governor, not so sharp on international issues, and has voiced support for TPP (but I don't think he knows much about it); a slew of other "right-wing" candidates; and Jill Stein on the left.

I live in a very Democrat-dominated voting district. So Hillary is going to get my electoral college vote; how I vote is not going to change the election results. Based on all that, I'm planning to vote for Johnson to tell the Republicans they made a poor choice; there were several other perfectly competent choices in the Republican primary, but they didn't have the bombastic charisma of Trump - or maybe a WHOLE lot of people just wanted to give a big F U to the party power brokers.

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James H
Oct 17, 2016
Is there a point to vote for a man that can't win vs not voting? Not trying to troll here - serious question
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ME
Member
Oct 17, 2016
The choices are poor this year.
Hillary is a criminal. Period. She has sold her office. She went into the State department with the intention of hiding her activities. Clinton Foundation donors got favored treatment. Bill & Hill made 150 million bucks without adding anything to the market. Clinton is a bigot and an elitist. She is not in good health. People say she is the most qualified person ever to run for the office. How so? Foreign policy under her and Obama has been an absolute disaster.
Jill Stein-one word-KOOKOO!!!
Gary Johnson- I think he smokes dope. He just ain't there.
That leaves Trump. Ugh. What an ass. He is clueless as a politician and campaigner. That may be a good thing-we seriously need to shake up the establishment. He's got the 'nads to do it. All these stories of the women coming forward, I don't buy it-they could have done it in civil court years ago for a nice settlement. Some of them have tried to get help from him or to work for him recently. Now they are offended? Hmmm,,,maybe some Clinton Campaign Cash came their way. But Trump is good at business. He's clearly good at winning, and that's what America needs. I just wish we had somebody who was a lot more principled, and that worries me.
So, of the choices-two whackos, a criminal and an ass with a record of success. I gotta go with Trump.
BTW-Obama was not an outsider. He's been a political operative from the beginning. And now, the worst POTUS in history.

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DesertRat
Oct 17, 2016
In actuality, the Republicans did not nominate Donald Trump as their Presidential candidate. The left leaning, pro Hillary media actually controlled the whole process. Although I don't like it, I have to admit that they did a beautiful job in getting what they wanted. In the primary season, they promoted Trump over all the other candidates. Trump spent very little money in the primaries because of all the free press he received. The media and Trump destroyed the other candidates and Trump came out on top.
In the general election the media set out to destroy Trump and they are doing a great job at it. They also refuse to report the truth about Hillary, giving her a free ride. In this election the press is not a neutral reporter of the facts, but an active participant in the election of Hillary Clinton.
In this Country, the press is protected in what they report for very good reason. They were granted immunity from prosecution so they could be the peoples' eyes and ears. They would always be able to report the truth, without fear of reprisal, so the people could make honest, informed choices. Unfortunately, they have been derelict in their duties and have become political advocates rather than a neutral reporter of the truth. Freedom of the press is one of the main principals our Country was founded upon. If this basic foundation fails, can the failure of the rest of Country be far behind?
The liberal press and the Washington insiders, including Republicans, are against Trump. He is no friend to any of them and they want to destroy him.
In this election I am voting for Donald Trump and against the dishonest Hillary Clinton and also against her lackey, the main stream media. Perhaps Trump will upset the apple cart of the Washington insiders and the liberal press and make our Country great again. For the good of our great Country, I certainly hope so.
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ME
Member
Oct 17, 2016
Some good points, Rat. He is far from my ideal candidate, and he is doing so horribly right now that I can't help but hear a little voice inside hinting that his candidacy never was serious. But I'm against conspiracy theories. They're silly.
However, we do have proof of the media bias and assistance in favor of Clinton.
I'll vote Trump and hope he gets elected. Maybe he'll be so shocked at it, he'll resign and we get Pence as prez----WINNING!!!
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Tom === Thomas S. Tierney
Oct 17, 2016
Voting for the third party nominee is a waste of your vote.
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NatureBoy24
Oct 18, 2016
[quote]Is there a point to vote for a man that can't win vs not voting? Not trying to troll here - serious question[/quote]What does not voting say? What message does it send?

It tells the political parties that you don't care who runs the country. You don't care what the policies of the USA are. You don't care how your tax dollars are spent. You don't care.

The two main parties don't care how many people vote, only that more of their supporters vote than the other party's. If they can discourage the other candidates' supporters from voting, that is just as good as getting more votes for their candidate.

Voting for someone who can't win sends a very small message that you support the policies of that person and the major parties may see value in modifying their positions slightly in the direction of whoever you - and enough other people - voted for.
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ManOfWicklow
Oct 18, 2016
[quote]Voting for the third party nominee is a waste of your vote.
[/quote]Yes, because in doing so, you may end up helping the worst one of the top two runners winning. It makes more sense to vote for the better of one of two evils, so as to keep the worst one of them out.

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FU
FullSun
Oct 18, 2016
[quote]Hillary is a criminal. Period. She has sold her office. She went into the State department with the intention of hiding her activities. Clinton Foundation donors got favored treatment. Bill & Hill made 150 million bucks without adding anything to the market. Clinton is a bigot and an elitist. She is not in good health. People say she is the most qualified person ever to run for the office. How so? Foreign policy under her and Obama has been an absolute disaster. [/quote]What bothers me are statements like this. There are a number of statements in here and all over the place talking about how Hillary is a criminal etc. How so? All the statements above are opinion of someone that does not like her. I'm not saying I think she is the best option, etc. but I have yet to see any evidence that she is a criminal other than statements that she supposedly is one.
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ME
Member
Oct 19, 2016
[quote]California is a good state to vote third party. Clinton could die and she'd still be elected.

The only people who have to worry about getting Trump elected by not voting Clinton are the battleground states. Even there, his is so far behind in the polls nationally, it doesn't really matter if he carries a few states. Every day his polls get worse.

The only reason NOT to vote third party - and I'm voting Libertarian myself - is if you want to keep the two party system exactly as it is.

If your vote isn't going to affect the outcome of an election, it might as well at least show your disapproval of the choices offered by the 2 main parties.
[/quote]This is absolutely true, and if I were in a such a state, I'd send a message too.
Politics these days is crazy. If the trend continues-Trump will win despite the indications from polls. Look at Brexit.
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ME
Member
Oct 19, 2016
[quote] [quote]Hillary is a criminal. Period. She has sold her office. She went into the State department with the intention of hiding her activities. Clinton Foundation donors got favored treatment. Bill & Hill made 150 million bucks without adding anything to the market. Clinton is a bigot and an elitist. She is not in good health. People say she is the most qualified person ever to run for the office. How so? Foreign policy under her and Obama has been an absolute disaster. [/quote] What bothers me are statements like this. There are a number of statements in here and all over the place talking about how Hillary is a criminal etc. How so? All the statements above are opinion of someone that does not like her. I'm not saying I think she is the best option, etc. but I have yet to see any evidence that she is a criminal other than statements that she supposedly is one.[/quote] Read the FBI statements-the "302's", which are the reports written from the FBI Agents.
We know that she intentionally set up an email server going into office as SoS. She traded in emails that were classified. This is an established fact. Doing so is a crime. Her people cleaned the server AFTER a subpoena was issued. That is a crime. She had her devices destroyed. That is a crime. Now, stories are coming out that there was 'pay for play'---she did favors for people as SoS after the Clinton Foundation received donations. That is how so. She is a criminal.
Her buddy at State tried to get the FBI to unclassify documents--the FBI agents used the term 'quid pro quo'--at a time when the news of the classified documents were coming out.
People get so torqued up about offensive language that has nothing to do with performance on the job.
Why do you not hear about it? Check the Podesta emails--people at the major news networks worked with Clinton behind the scenes.
I do not like her. Because she is corrupt and criminal. And how can anyone argue the mess that is the foreign situation?
PS- I'll defend any of the other statements if you like.

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FU
FullSun
Oct 19, 2016
[quote] [quote] [quote]Hillary is a criminal. Period. She has sold her office. She went into the State department with the intention of hiding her activities. Clinton Foundation donors got favored treatment. Bill & Hill made 150 million bucks without adding anything to the market. Clinton is a bigot and an elitist. She is not in good health. People say she is the most qualified person ever to run for the office. How so? Foreign policy under her and Obama has been an absolute disaster. [/quote] What bothers me are statements like this. There are a number of statements in here and all over the place talking about how Hillary is a criminal etc. How so? All the statements above are opinion of someone that does not like her. I'm not saying I think she is the best option, etc. but I have yet to see any evidence that she is a criminal other than statements that she supposedly is one.[/quote] Read the FBI statements-the "302's", which are the reports written from the FBI Agents.
We know that she intentionally set up an email server going into office as SoS. She traded in emails that were classified. This is an established fact. Doing so is a crime. Her people cleaned the server AFTER a subpoena was issued. That is a crime. She had her devices destroyed. That is a crime. Now, stories are coming out that there was 'pay for play'---she did favors for people as SoS after the Clinton Foundation received donations. That is how so. She is a criminal.
Her buddy at State tried to get the FBI to unclassify documents--the FBI agents used the term 'quid pro quo'--at a time when the news of the classified documents were coming out.
People get so torqued up about offensive language that has nothing to do with performance on the job.
Why do you not hear about it? Check the Podesta emails--people at the major news networks worked with Clinton behind the scenes.
I do not like her. Because she is corrupt and criminal. And how can anyone argue the mess that is the foreign situation?
PS- I'll defend any of the other statements if you like.

[/quote]Thanks for the response. It's been a while since I really looked into some of this. However, it drives me nuts that email server keeps coming up. Although probably not the right thing to do Hillary is not the only one, Colin Powell is confirmed to have done the same but no one screams about that and as I understand it others have done this too. Maybe there are reports but was she charged? Has she been convicted in court? What happened to innocent until PROVEN guilty or is media here say and Trumped up charges the new standard?
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ME
Member
Oct 19, 2016
[quote] [quote]>[/quote] Thanks for the response. It's been a while since I really looked into some of this. However, it drives me nuts that email server keeps coming up. Although probably not the right thing to do Hillary is not the only one, Colin Powell is confirmed to have done the same but no one screams about that and as I understand it others have done this too. Maybe there are reports but was she charged? Has she been convicted in court? What happened to innocent until PROVEN guilty or is media here say and Trumped up charges the new standard?[/quote] Politifact scores her claim about Powell as mostly false. He did not have a private server, and if memory serves-he used private email address, but for the sensitive stuff, he used the State system. Hillary did not; in fact she even ignored the pleas to not use her devices while overseas, and she insisted on taking her devices into SCRIFs (? I think that's the term for the secure rooms that the gov't uses for secret stuff.) Others have not done it. Think about your job. You can speak in a general way about it, but there's a lot of meat and bones that are a part of the ongoing activity. Same is true of this. Operationally, what she did is way, way, way out of line with what anyone else has done. Her actions far outweigh the things Nixon did. The evidence is out there. The smoking gun won't be there-she is a slick operator, but the evidence is overwhelming and far too detailed to get into here.

She was not charged. There are reports that the FBI investigators are outraged over that fact. They believe that the case should have been presented to a grand jury. So do I. The FBI director laid out a strong case against her, but then declined to recommend charges. He said because there is no evidence of intent. But intent is not necessary under the relevant law.

Other questions:

Why did she set up the server going into office?
Why did she destroy evidence after a subpoena was issued?
The half hour meeting on the tarmac between Bill Clinton and the Attorney General-the FBI Director's boss.
The fact that FBI agents were required to sign NDA's.
The fact that when Hillary was questioned, she was allowed to have advisers with her who acted as lawyers-but who were also targets and/or witnesses in the investigation.
The fact that the FBI did not search Clinton's house.
The destruction of the devices.
The agreement by the FBI to destroy an aide's laptop after reviewing it and agreeing to a limited search.
Why were five of her aides given immunity?

There's more. But one question-especially for liberals.

Does this not reek of the powerful being held to a different standard than you would be?

There is a great deal of evidence that she and her people committed serious crimes and it is highly likely that hostile foreign actors hacked her server and got classified information and information that can be used against her in private. Her activity puts us all at great risk. We are not safer than we were 8 years ago, and she is clearly at risk of being manipulated with information gleaned from her server.

Is she guilty? I don't know, but there is enough evidence for a fair trial. And plenty of doubt to keep her away from the most powerful office in the world.

Oh-Media heresay. They bury her bad stuff. There's evidence that they favor her. Coverage of old Trump sex stuff is covered as much as 23:1 more than serious, job and security related stories about Clinton.

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ManOfWicklow
Oct 19, 2016
You can pick any one of thousands to stand for Office, and dig up enough shit on them if you dig deep enough. If you're looking for someone squeaky clean to run, then you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

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FU
FullSun
Oct 19, 2016
[quote]You can pick any one of thousands to stand for Office, and dig up enough shit on them if you dig deep enough. If you're looking for someone squeaky clean to run, then you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

[/quote]Just wait a couple decades when those that are young now that use social media so much are running for office. All that stupid stuff they are posting now will come back to bite them in the butt.
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ME
Member
Oct 19, 2016
[quote]You can pick any one of thousands to stand for Office, and dig up enough shit on them if you dig deep enough. If you're looking for someone squeaky clean to run, then you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

[/quote] We all know that applies to Trump. The shit for Hillary, however is not deep stuff from her private life a long time ago. It's intentional and criminal activity that she conducted in the context of her work and at the expense of national security. That's why it's far more serious than the soap opera around Trump.
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FullSun
Oct 20, 2016
A great article http://johnpavlovitz.com/2016/10/19/the-brain-surgeon-and-the-carnival-barker/

Too bad things got so screwed up that we even have a carnival barker running. As a former Republican that rer-egisterd because the party has lost it's way, it's sad we have the candidates we do particularly in the Republican party, though I agree with the article, I'd rather have the surgeon.
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Tom === Thomas S. Tierney
Oct 20, 2016
Just saw Gary Johnson on Jimmy Kimmel Live. Too bad he doesn't have a chance of being elected.

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Tom === Thomas S. Tierney
Oct 21, 2016
[quote]Yep. I'm also voting for him. This coming from someone who normally stands with Republicans. I just can't bring myself to vote for the other 2.[/quote]Then vote against the one you like the least. Please do not through away your vote.

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ME
Member
Oct 21, 2016
[quote]Yep. I'm also voting for him. This coming from someone who normally stands with Republicans. I just can't bring myself to vote for the other 2.[/quote] You're in Florida. Like me, your vote counts and we have a responsibility to use it wisely, free of all of the political bluster and distractions. Big time. Voting for Johnson will be a vote for Clinton. Sad but true. Trump is an ass and a wild card for the sake of attention and headlines, but he is a very smart businessman and the one that will disrupt the political establishment and break the elite political class.

You have two choices, my friend. Not four or five.

Clinton and a level of establishment entitlement like this country has never seen with massive economic and international consequences and corruption on a monumental scale.

or

Trump who will break the hold that the political elites have on regulation and free market and so many aspects of our lives.

They're both very good at what they do. Clinton has made 150 million trading her political influence with the safety nets that come in the political world(including being above the law). Trump has made ten billion in the free market with the ups and downs (and the criminal and civil liability that the private sector carries). They both know how the game is played in their markets. Which has been more successful?

Clinton's measure of success will be the first woman elected president. Her legacy will be achieved more than sixty days before she is even sworn into office, and any criticism of her will be considered misogynist. She will work to keep the elitist class in place, and government as big and intrusive as possible.

Trump's measure of success will be fixing what's broken in Washington and in the country. He will measure himself on the status of business and prosperity in the country when he steps down.

Johnson? He didn't even know where Aleppo is. (It's in Syria-it is the hottest spot on the planet where Obama has deferred to Russia.)

Oh-the Russians. Yeah, a red herring. If anybody thinks Trump will permit his ego to be marginalized by a bully like Putin are fooling themselves. Trump is nothing if he is not a competitor and the biggest man in the room. He will get the Russians in line. Clinton sure hasn't done it. Russia just sailed it's navy through the English Channel while flipping the bird (actually stomping their foot) to (in) the heart of Western Europe. They did it on the way to Syria, where they have now placed their flag in the wake of Obama's cowardice. The message of that voyage was to Europe, and it's telling them that they are on his list of conquests. No little plastic reset button (with the wrong translation on it) will stop him if Clinton is president. And the Russian bear would stomp a mouse like Johnson.

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Steve
Oct 21, 2016
My niece in Texas is seriously considering voting for Johnson, and may well do so because her vote isn't of great strategic importance. Neither is mine in Hawaii, of course; I'll be voting for our Libertarian Senate candidate - not the brightest bulb in the room - as a protest against Brian Schatz, a Democratic party hack who is sure to win. I'll be voting for Clinton, for a couple of reasons.

First, I genuinely do believe that Trump isn't particularly stable and should not be President.

Second, it's plain that Clinton is going to win. And for the sake of the country,whoeverwins needs to be seen as legitimate, however subject to the usual legislative and judicial checks she may be. I want to help make sure that her popular-vote majority is strong enough to head off what otherwise promises to be a real threat to the American traditions around the democratic transfer of power.
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FU
FullSun
Oct 22, 2016
[quote] [quote]Trump is an ass and a wild card for the sake of attention and headlines, but he is a very smart businessman and the one that will disrupt the political establishment and break the elite political class.

You have two choices, my friend. Not four or five.

Clinton and a level of establishment entitlement like this country has never seen with massive economic and international consequences and corruption on a monumental scale.

or

Trump who will break the hold that the political elites have on regulation and free market and so many aspects of our lives.

[/quote][/quote] I suppose you could say Trump is a smart businessman but in reality he is a rich person that knows how to play shell games. Take a look at how many businesses he has had go bankrupt or that have been up on charges for labor or other illegal business practices.My degree is in economics, take a look at just about any economist's report on Trump's policies. They are a disaster for the economy. It may go well for a couple of years before it all comes crashing down but that's where it will go. The winners will be the 1 percenters like Trump while the rest suffer. Trump is a narcissistic egotist that wants to be King. Listen to him, he has no idea that he has to work with congress etc. He has asked Hillary a number of times why she didn't change this or that law while she was in the Senate. I didn't know that one Senator could change a law by his or her self.
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