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14016223Original Poster
Oct 2, 2015When will Obama start blaming the perps in these shootings instead of the weapons they use?
14016223 grabs popcorn ;)
14016223 grabs popcorn ;)
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- RU
RussOct 5, 2015If one chooses NOT to own a firearm.....I will respect that......but keep in mind.....when thieves....are planning a break in of a home....even if half the homes in a neighborhood.....are NOT gun owners....they benefit for those that do....the thieves...are deterred by the fact ..that they does NOT know which break in will get them shot/killed.
ReactReply - RURussOct 5, 2015
It seems that the American founding fathers having personal experience with the leaders of England....wrote the second amendment...with clarity of thought.....we have NEVER been the subjects of the government......unlike the unfortunate brits......
ReactReply - T=
Tom === Thomas S. TierneyOct 5, 2015I never see "Protection Rifles" for sale.
I do see a lot of "Assault Rifles" for sale.ReactReply - MEMemberOct 6, 2015Well...let's not play too fast & loose with the numbers because we all must remember that there are "lies, damn lies and statistics".
1. The US may have the most mass shootings (38) but when the numbers are corrected for population; it drops significantly;
2. Firearms homicides number 11208 for the CDC's last web published data (Mexico drug dealer war deaths number 12903 for the first 9 months of 2011);
3. An article on a mass shooter said he had two targets and chose the one less defended (i.e. the one with no guns);
4. The US does have the highest number...if you eliminate the sects from middle east and most of the third world...and if you eliminate all the non-public killings south of the Rio ... not to mention the current plight of urban areas ... and again do not correct for total population;
5. Pretty close...estimated guns 310000000...estimated people 320000000...not counting illegals of either type......
6. This is only minimally correct if you eliminate all the irregular / civilian type fighting factions of the world, bombs and chemical weapons are only as accurate as their delivery (what about biological?);
7. The Declaration's rough draft was primarily Jefferson's (he borrowed ideas from George Mason) but was edited by Franklin and several others from non-slave states...I've never fired a musket but your 10 seconds is probably pretty close.
This is a very tough position...you keep yours and I'll keep mine.ReactReply - RURussOct 6, 2015[quote]Well...let's not play too fast & loose with the numbers because we all must remember that there are "lies, damn lies and statistics".
1. The US may have the most mass shootings (38) but when the numbers are corrected for population; it drops significantly;
2. Firearms homicides number 11208 for the CDC's last web published data (Mexico drug dealer war deaths number 12903 for the first 9 months of 2011);
3. An article on a mass shooter said he had two targets and chose the one less defended (i.e. the one with no guns);
4. The US does have the highest number...if you eliminate the sects from middle east and most of the third world...and if you eliminate all the non-public killings south of the Rio ... not to mention the current plight of urban areas ... and again do not correct for total population;
5. Pretty close...estimated guns 310000000...estimated people 320000000...not counting illegals of either type......
6. This is only minimally correct if you eliminate all the irregular / civilian type fighting factions of the world, bombs and chemical weapons are only as accurate as their delivery (what about biological?);
7. The Declaration's rough draft was primarily Jefferson's (he borrowed ideas from George Mason) but was edited by Franklin and several others from non-slave states...I've never fired a musket but your 10 seconds is probably pretty close.
This is a very tough position...you keep yours and I'll keep mine.
[/quote]thank you........and consider this....tonights news stated that there are over 350 MILLION arms in private hands....compare that to the actual number of deaths by firearms......the percentage is astronomically low........just vist the CDC website and see how low the gun death numbers are compared to other forms of dying....ReactReply - RE
renebbareOct 6, 2015[quote] When I read or hear that someone wants to control or ban guns.....I ask myself if they have ever been a victim of a violent crime.
and there have been many instances where an armed citizen has stopped a violent crime...but the MSM does not report it.
We do have a drug problem in the usa....and drug addicts will do ANYTHING to support their habit....except risk their lives trying to rob an armed individual...can you possibly imagine the home invasion increase if drug addicts did not fear the home owner???
Remember...when seconds count....the police are only several minutes away....[/quote]The real reason for owning a gun for self defence is exposed in FEAR
With nothing to fear there is no need of a gun other than food - and how many people hunt purely to put food on the table? I would say not that many.
No the real reason for ownership is FEAR.ReactReply - RURussOct 6, 2015[quote]The real reason for owning a gun for self defence is exposed in FEAR
With nothing to fear there is no need of a gun other than food - and how many people hunt purely to put food on the table? I would say not that many.
No the real reason for ownership is FEAR.[/quote][quote]
[/quote][quote]
[/quote][quote] Have you ever been a victim of a violent crime??? Its easy to claim a gun owner is living in fear...but the reality is...responsible gun owners do NOT live in fear....[/quote]ReactReply - KE
KeithOct 6, 20151 death involving firearms is 1 death too many. Especially when it involves kids.
No kids should have access to firearms without the presence of a licensed responsible adult.ReactReply - RURussOct 6, 2015[quote]1 death involving firearms is 1 death too many. Especially when it involves kids.
No kids should have access to firearms without the presence of a licensed responsible adult.[/quote]more children are killed in car accidents than firearms....how many are too many...and with all the texting while driving these days...where is the responsibility in that??? look at the facts.....how many children must be killed before car ownership is banned????ReactReply - ST
StevieLornaOct 6, 2015Reported today in USA
An 11-year-old boy has been charged with murder after he allegedly shot dead his eight-year-old neighbour and schoolmate over a puppy.
Utter madness, but maybe if she was carrying she could have fought back.ReactReply - KEKeithOct 6, 2015[quote]Reported today in USA
An 11-year-old boy has been charged with murder after he allegedly shot dead his eight-year-old neighbour and schoolmate over a puppy.
Utter madness, but maybe if she was carrying she could have fought back.
[/quote]And the 11 year olds parents will defend the right to keep guns unsecured in the house.
I have registered weapons in my farm for vermin control, but they are 300 km away from where I am currently. They are locked in a metal safe and the key is with me.
I don't need them to protect myself from insecure people carrying guns. Our police carry weapons that's enough and sporting shooters leave their guns in armouries at their respective gun clubs. or locked metal gun safes where ammunition has to by law be stored in a separate locked compartment in the gun safe.
So why do Americans need weapons, is it to protect themselves from other Americans who need weapons to protect themselves from other people who are doing the same thing.
I also concede that we had a radicalized young Muslim 15 year old youth shoot a civilian police office worker just recently in Sydney. How he got the gun will be interesting and how many more of these illegal guns are in circulation with the radicalized groups .At least he only had an old 6 shot revolver not an automatic cache of weapons on him.
A sad world indeed.ReactReply - CH
ChristopherOct 6, 2015[quote]Well...let's not play too fast & loose with the numbers because we all must remember that there are "lies, damn lies and statistics".
1. The US may have the most mass shootings (38) but when the numbers are corrected for population; it drops significantly;
2. Firearms homicides number 11208 for the CDC's last web published data (Mexico drug dealer war deaths number 12903 for the first 9 months of 2011);
3. An article on a mass shooter said he had two targets and chose the one less defended (i.e. the one with no guns);
4. The US does have the highest number...if you eliminate the sects from middle east and most of the third world...and if you eliminate all the non-public killings south of the Rio ... not to mention the current plight of urban areas ... and again do not correct for total population;
5. Pretty close...estimated guns 310000000...estimated people 320000000...not counting illegals of either type......
6. This is only minimally correct if you eliminate all the irregular / civilian type fighting factions of the world, bombs and chemical weapons are only as accurate as their delivery (what about biological?);
7. The Declaration's rough draft was primarily Jefferson's (he borrowed ideas from George Mason) but was edited by Franklin and several others from non-slave states...I've never fired a musket but your 10 seconds is probably pretty close.
This is a very tough position...you keep yours and I'll keep mine.
[/quote]You are 100% correct. You could not be more correct. Your post attempting to muddy the waters of this topic is full of lies, misstatements, and fuzzy statistics.
On 9/11/2001 Americans were shocked, appalled, incensed, and rightfully angry that there were almost 3,000 deaths from the hands of the terrorists. Following your logic since 3,000 divided by our population of 321,800,000 is O N L Y 0.00093225605 % why all of the outrage? *rolls eyes*
Bringing up automotive safety, and the deaths from car accidents to compare with gun safety is quite simply crap! Cancer is a major killer that causes untold human suffering. Heart disease is no picnic for those that suffer and die from cardiac issues. But, no rational person goes around saying that medical research for one should be at the expense of the other! Just as fighting cardiac disease and fighting cancer can go on independently, so can auto safety and gun control be independent as well.
No matter how you look at it, 33,636 gun deaths (CDC stat) is a huge (Donald Trumpism), unconscionable, and reduceable waste of human life. Most Americans are in favor of better background checks and the elimination of the gun show loop hole. Trying to mitigate the amount of human tragedy, trying to bring up auto safety, and trying to muddy the waters is intellectual dishonesty.ReactReply - CHChristopherOct 6, 2015[quote]If one chooses NOT to own a firearm.....I will respect that......but keep in mind.....when thieves....are planning a break in of a home....even if half the homes in a neighborhood.....are NOT gun owners....they benefit for those that do....the thieves...are deterred by the fact ..that they does NOT know which break in will get them shot/killed. [/quote]"Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It start when you are always afraid..." (Buffalo Springfield).
Where in this country is crime that rampant? If you are that afraid you need to move to a safer location. If moving to a safer neighborhood does not provide you with more psychological security perhaps you need to speak with a therapist. Perhaps a psychologist can help you work out how you are so paranoid that the big bad gov't is going to come after you so you need to preserve freedom with your firearms and how there are so many criminals you need to live in an alarmed and armed state of mind.
For Gawd's sake, the conservatives rant that the liberal cities in blue states have unbearable gun laws and are rife with crime. I live two counties away from (liberal) New York City in New York State (a blue state) in a county with fairly strict gun carry laws (Suffolk County). Frequently I leave with either the front door or the garage open. When home I keep the front door unlocked. There is no arsenal here to keep the criminals from invading my property. Guess what? I have never been the victim of crime and to the best of my knowledge none of my neighbors have either.
I like living where gun laws exist, it gives me a feeling of security. You evidently live in a world were gun ownership is both allowed and common. Yet, you live in a world of fear. I prefer my world; it's more peaceful!ReactReply - RErenebbareOct 6, 2015[quote][quote] Have you ever been a victim of a violent crime??? Its easy to claim a gun owner is living in fear...but the reality is...responsible gun owners do NOT live in fear....[/quote][/quote]Sorry but the very reason gun owners carry a gun is the FEAR they might be the victim of a violent crime.ReactReply
- RURussOct 7, 2015[quote]Sorry but the very reason gun owners carry a gun is the FEAR they might be the victim of a violent crime. [/quote]spoken like a person isolated from violent crime.....ReactReply
- MEMemberOct 7, 2015I will not bother to cite the data that my response was based upon as you have obviously stopped all sense of debate or reasoning; my attempt was to offer a counter, a 'first negative' for the facts offered by rabbit. Every set of facts is based upon a premise that may or may not be true to the original intent. Yours does not appear to offer any real rebuttal, but instead goes for an emotional dogma approach to the subject. And you DARE state that I am intellectually dishonest. Please see below:
"You are 100% correct. You could not be more correct. Your post attempting to muddy the waters of this topic is full of lies, misstatements, and fuzzy statistics.
On 9/11/2001 Americans were shocked, appalled, incensed, and rightfully angry that there were almost 3,000 deaths from the hands of the terrorists. Following your logic since 3,000 divided by our population of 321,800,000 is O N L Y 0.00093225605 % why all of the outrage? *rolls eyes*
Bringing up automotive safety, and the deaths from car accidents to compare with gun safety is quite simply crap! Cancer is a major killer that causes untold human suffering. Heart disease is no picnic for those that suffer and die from cardiac issues. But, no rational person goes around saying that medical research for one should be at the expense of the other! Just as fighting cardiac disease and fighting cancer can go on independently, so can auto safety and gun control be independent as well.
No matter how you look at it, 33,636 gun deaths (CDC stat) is a huge (Donald Trumpism), unconscionable, and reduceable waste of human life. Most Americans are in favor of better background checks and the elimination of the gun show loop hole. Trying to mitigate the amount of human tragedy, trying to bring up auto safety, and trying to muddy the waters is intellectual dishonesty."
1.Trying to equate a mass killing by a middle eastern terrorist group with an act of a disturbed man is a regrettable use of poor logic;
2. Equating accidents and planned murders as comparable data sets shows a lack of comprehension for the scenario in question;
3. The CDC numbers are factual but we are differentiating PLANNED ACTS of lunatics with the consequences of a lack of safety;
4. Baltimore has some of the most strict guns laws in the country...checked the news lately?
Please be more factually based and rational with your next reply. In the words of Stan Lee....'nuff said.....ReactReply - CHChristopherOct 7, 2015[quote]I will not bother to cite the data that my response was based upon ...[/quote]That was duly noticed.ReactReply
- T=Tom === Thomas S. TierneyOct 7, 2015[quote][quote]I will not bother to cite the data that my response was based upon ...[/quote]That was duly noticed.
[/quote]I will not bother to read data when the source is not stated.ReactReply - 1414016223Original PosterOct 8, 2015[quote][quote]The real reason for owning a gun for self defence is exposed in FEAR
With nothing to fear there is no need of a gun other than food - and how many people hunt purely to put food on the table? I would say not that many.
No the real reason for ownership is FEAR.[/quote]I agree with you, Rene, but you'll never get them to admit it. Too many people on here are frightened to speak the truth, and will continue making up ridiculous excuses.[/quote] I agree with you MOW, you folks will use any excuse to change a Constitution that you do not even live under.ReactReply - MA
ManOfWicklowOct 8, 2015[quote][quote]The real reason for owning a gun for self defence is exposed in FEAR
With nothing to fear there is no need of a gun other than food - and how many people hunt purely to put food on the table? I would say not that many.
No the real reason for ownership is FEAR.[/quote][/quote]I agree with you, Rene, but you'll never get them to admit it. Too many people on here are frightened to speak the truth, and will continue making up ridiculous excuses.ReactReply - RURussOct 15, 2015[quote] Good grief people. It has been pointed out that there are more firearms than people in the US. Household containing firearms are close to 50%. Many people who do not own guns would not be happy to have that right taken away. The NRA has the second largest membership of any organization. Only AARP is bigger. Since our very inception the Right to Keep and Bear Arms has been revered as a fundamental right and funny thing, SCOTUS agrees with that now. (It had been "dodging the bullet" so to speak for a good century.)
Guns are the reality. It isn't going to change any time soon. Probably not in my lifetime. Taken in the grand scheme of things death by firearm is pretty small potatoes. Every year we voluntarily march into premature graves in the millions. Death by firearms is WAY down the list. I don't plan to surrender my right to eat cholesterol any time soon. You really want to start a gun war to replace the drug war? Guns are way more popular and don't get used up like drugs.
Someone who is willing to kill you doesn't care if he's in a gun free zone. Stupid stupid. So come up with solutions that law abiding gun owners won't object to and might actually have a chance to happen and you'll have accomplished something. Like reforming the mental health system. Otherwise you'll go nowhere but feel really virtuous in the process.
People who whine on about cop killer bullets just signal to the rest of the world they don't have clue. Ain't no such critter. Go forth and study basic terminal ballistics and come back and talk intelligently.
BTW, I have quite an arsenal at home. Some was inherited from my father. Some from my father in law. Some I bought myself. All nicely locked up. Some have been gifted to my children and wife. Don't tell me fear has anything to do with it because you don't know me. I just like to shoot.
[/quote][quote]
[/quote][quote]good post![/quote]ReactReply - MAManOfWicklowOct 15, 2015[quote]Good grief people. It has been pointed out that there are more firearms than people in the US. Household containing firearms are close to 50%. Many people who do not own guns would not be happy to have that right taken away. The NRA has the second largest membership of any organization. Only AARP is bigger. Since our very inception the Right to Keep and Bear Arms has been revered as a fundamental right and funny thing, SCOTUS agrees with that now. (It had been "dodging the bullet" so to speak for a good century.)
Guns are the reality. It isn't going to change any time soon. Probably not in my lifetime. Taken in the grand scheme of things death by firearm is pretty small potatoes. Every year we voluntarily march into premature graves in the millions. Death by firearms is WAY down the list. I don't plan to surrender my right to eat cholesterol any time soon. You really want to start a gun war to replace the drug war? Guns are way more popular and don't get used up like drugs.
Someone who is willing to kill you doesn't care if he's in a gun free zone. Stupid stupid. So come up with solutions that law abiding gun owners won't object to and might actually have a chance to happen and you'll have accomplished something. Like reforming the mental health system. Otherwise you'll go nowhere but feel really virtuous in the process.
People who whine on about cop killer bullets just signal to the rest of the world they don't have clue. Ain't no such critter. Go forth and study basic terminal ballistics and come back and talk intelligently.
BTW, I have quite an arsenal at home. Some was inherited from my father. Some from my father in law. Some I bought myself. All nicely locked up. Some have been gifted to my children and wife. Don't tell me fear has anything to do with it because you don't know me. I just like to shoot.
[/quote]How sadReactReply - NU
NudeGuzziOct 16, 2015There are 10s of millions of responsible gun owners in the US. They just don't make it on the evening news.
There are 10s of millions of responsible marijuana users in the US. They just don't make it on the evening news.
There are millions of responsible motorcycle riders in the US. They just don't make it on the evening news.
Are you starting to understand?ReactReply - T=Tom === Thomas S. TierneyOct 16, 2015[quote]There are 10s of millions of responsible gun owners in the US. They just don't make it on the evening news. There are 10s of millions of responsible marijuana users in the US. They just don't make it on the evening news. There are millions of responsible motorcycle riders in the US. They just don't make it on the evening news. Are you starting to understand?[/quote]Yup! "If it bleeds it leads."ReactReply