The church and nudism

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• TD

  

  Tom D

  Mar 25, 2022

  [quote]Bathing in the roof was extremely common. No one in the Bible ever gets into trouble for simply being nude. I always thought it was interesting that it was David who got into trouble for watching Bathsheba bathe and Bathsheba was never accused of doing anything wrong.I think bathing on the roof was fairly common in that time.[/quote] In contrast, many people believe that David was nude when he fought Goliath, as portrayed in several works of art. The Bible says David took off Saul's armor and tunic and doesn't mention him putting anything on. In addition, both combat and shepherding were sometimes done nude in ancient times since clothing was difficult to make and maintain, so it was not worn when it was likely to be damaged.

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• TD

  

  Tom D

  Mar 27, 2022

  [quote]The churches stance has always been to put clothes on any country they go to, such as Africa and Australia. So really I can't see that the church will have changed its mind. Most still think it is still wrong to be naked.[/quote] I sometimes wonder how differently things would have developed if missionaries to Africa, Australia (and South America and the Pacific Islands for that matter) would have decided that the indigenous populations had the right idea by wearing little or nothing in hot areas and significantly reduced or even eliminated their level of clothing.

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• PA

  

  Paul

  Mar 27, 2022

  Anthropologists have some things to say about that. [quote]I sometimes wonder how differently things would have developed if missionaries to Africa, Australia (and South America and the Pacific Islands for that matter) would have decided that the indigenous populations had the right idea by wearing little or nothing in hot areas and significantly reduced or even eliminated their level of clothing.[/quote] For one thing, when clothing is introduced to a nude society, marital fidelity goes from nearly 100% to the western cultural norm -- which is a long way from 100%. Porn, which had been completely unheard of, becomes a thing is such societies. Clothing is the problem, not the solution.

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• AK

  

  Adam Knarr

  Mar 27, 2022

  Or we can all act like grown ups and put away childish beliefs and engage with reality the world might be better.

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• AK

  

  Adam Knarr

  Mar 27, 2022

  The satanic temple says that they invented guilt and shame to control people I think that's right if you got a naked happy person they're really hard to control and force them to be sheep. I'm not a sheep I'm a wolf and and wolves don't wear clothes

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• AK

  

  Adam Knarr

  Mar 27, 2022

  Why not join us in the satanic temple we're working on destroying the Catholic church and all that it stands for. I've been a member of several satanic organizations I can tell you that there is a lot of nudity going on and it ain't no big deal and a lot of it's not sexual, it's ritual also we don't care what you wear that's the whole point. "Do what that will shall be the whole of the law." Nudism is about choice, freedom, personal agency these are anathema to the church. Ave Satanas

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• AK

  

  Adam Knarr

  Mar 27, 2022

  I feel as though your glossing over the thousands of women burned at the stake but you know Christians whatever

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• AK

  

  Adam Knarr

  Mar 27, 2022

  I feel as though your glossing over the thousands of women burned at the stake but you know Christians whatever

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• AK

  

  Adam Knarr

  Mar 27, 2022

  I feel as though your glossing over the thousands of women burned at the stake but you know Christians whatever

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• AK

  

  Adam Knarr

  Mar 27, 2022

  I'm in the backwards Savage ones hence the church

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• SA

  

  Stone Andy

  Mar 27, 2022

  My experience is that the Christian church isn't the problem, organized religion is.
  There is a part of Christianity called panentheism, that the spirit of God is embedded in nature, that appeals to me a lot. It's an idea adopted from pagan ideals which also include pantheism, that God=nature.
  So I attended a three day pagan retreat to celebrate the summer solstice. I was shocked how it was open to being skyclad, but only for women. I tried to attend a sweat lodge ritual naked but the woman in charge was so misandristic that she considered my penis a sexual weapon of violence. I was also mistaken how unhealthy and junk-food munching participants were. Not any closer to nature than your average church basement gathering. It's an American thing.

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• TD

  

  Tom D

  Mar 27, 2022

  [quote]I feel as though your glossing over the thousands of women burned at the stake but you know Christians whatever[/quote] Not denying it happened or even calling it the lesser of two evils, but the Muslim record with women is much worse.

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• PA

  

  Paul

  Mar 27, 2022

  It's a figure of speech [quote]in the old testament where it talks about not uncovering your sister's nakedness[/quote] that has as much to do with nakedness as "don't sleep with your sister" has to do with sleeping.

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• JO

  

  John

  Mar 27, 2022

  stoneandy wrote:
  
  [quote]My experience is that the Christian church isn't the problem, organized religion is.There is a part of Christianity called panentheism, that the spirit of God is embedded in nature, that appeals to me a lot. It's an idea adopted from pagan ideals which also include pantheism, that God=nature.[/quote]
  
  Pantheism isn't a part of Christianity per se, which subscribes to a single God. It's the default for most other religious practices, though. (Please don't ask me to explain the concept of the Holy Trinity in Catholicism. The best explanation I got from a teacher in Sunday school was that one wasn't supposed to understand it, because it's beyond a human's grasp. I found that to be a weak defense.)
  
  [quote]I tried to attend a sweat lodge ritual naked but the woman in charge was so misandristic that she considered my penis a sexual weapon of violence.[/quote]
  
  Was it specified that the sweat lodge ritual was to be only for women? If so, it was the prerogative of the woman in charge to determine that you were not to participate. (It is possible that the woman wanted to use the ritual as aspace for women to discuss how they'd been mistreated by men, and having a man in their company would doubtlessly hampered that.)If not, you were unfairly treated.
  
  Next year, set up your own sweat lodge, and advertise that it's coed.
  
  
  [quote] I was also mistaken how unhealthy and junk-food munching participants were. Not any closer to nature than your average church basement gathering. It's an American thing.
  [/quote]
  I've seen that, too. The guiding principle in many of these organizations is to lead by peer pressure, not by mandate. You take the people as they come, doing what they do, and guide them to a different attitude and life-style more in tune with yours. It works for some people and organizations, and not for others.

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• SA

  

  Stone Andy

  Mar 27, 2022

  [quote]Pantheism isn't a part of Christianity per se, which subscribes to a single God. It's the default for most other religious practices, though. Was it specified that the sweat lodge ritual was to be only for women? The guiding principle in many of these organizations is to lead by peer pressure, not by mandate. You take the people as they come, doing what they do, and guide them to a different attitude and life-style more in tune with yours. It works for some people and organizations, and not for others.[/quote] PanENtheism can be part of Christianity. One God's spirit is in nature, as exemplified in the hymn "How Great Thou Art." Another Christian perspective on nature is dominionism, which basically means to go ahead and exploit the hell out of nature, it's all in humans' dominion. The sweat lodge was advertised as coed, but it didn't advertise itself as male hostile. Given the strong militant feminist, greasy fast food munching pagan culture I encountered, I didn't relate to it as a place to return to.

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• PA

  

  Paul

  Mar 27, 2022

  The singleness of deity was one of the defining characteristics that originally set early followers of the Messiah apart from most other religious groups. [quote]Pantheism isn't a part of Christianity per se, which subscribes to a single God.[/quote] And it was this difference which was the motivation for inventing a trinity.

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• NU

  nudeyooper

  Mar 27, 2022

  No matter what your beliefs are, the question remains, Did God invent man, or did man invent God? The absolute truth is that as long as we exist on this earth, we will not know for sure. I know that some of us believe that religion has been invented by men, the rules determined by men, and the stories written by men. The good thing is that we are free to believe or not, and most of the rules of society have come from believers. Note that those rules have been passed down from generation to generation by men, and many of those rules have been changed, liberalized, or done away with al together.
  We have historical data that suggest that nudity in the past was much more the norm and accepted by many societies. Then as some say we went in the wrong direction and considered bare skin obscene. Those in this forum tend to say the obscenity is requireing clothing for things in which it is not necessary or even desired.
  We can read of those chosen by God to do their work naked. We can also read of those who chose to do God's work among the naked and they believed that putting clothes on the naked was their calling. It is just a matter of opinion as to who is right, and though I believe in God, I also believe there is no wrong in living naked.

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• PA

  

  Paul

  Mar 28, 2022

  That's me. [quote]Those in this forum tend to say the obscenity is requiring clothing for things in which it is not necessary or even desired.[/quote]

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• JO

  

  John

  Mar 28, 2022

  Stoneandy wrote: [quote] PanENtheism can be part of Christianity. One God's spirit is in nature, as exemplified in the hymn "How Great Thou Art." [/quote] My mistake. I'd never heard of the term before, and confused it with pantheism. [quote] The sweat lodge was advertised as coed, but it didn't advertise itself as male hostile. Given the strong militant feminist, greasy fast food munching pagan culture I encountered, I didn't relate to it as a place to return to.[/quote] I'm sure there are other places that are more hospitable. I'd write this one off as a learning experience.

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• NU

  nudeyooper

  Mar 30, 2022

  [quote]My experience is that the Christian church isn't the problem, organized religion is.There is a part of Christianity called panentheism, that the spirit of God is embedded in nature, that appeals to me a lot. It's an idea adopted from pagan ideals which also include pantheism, that God=nature.So I attended a three day pagan retreat to celebrate the summer solstice. I was shocked how it was open to being skyclad, but only for women. I tried to attend a sweat lodge ritual naked but the woman in charge was so misandristic that she considered my penis a sexual weapon of violence. I was also mistaken how unhealthy and junk-food munching participants were. Not any closer to nature than your average church basement gathering. It's an American thing. Understand it right, pagan is a typical american thing? We have also pagans in Germany. But I dont know, are they typical american pagans or just pagans?[/quote] It depends on how you define pagan. Americans are Christian, Jewish, Muslim, and None for the most part. Our two most celbrated holidays are Christmas and Halloween, both with Christian origins that have taken on secular customs and traditions. Though many still believe in the God of Abraham, there is a growing number of Nones. That is they have been brought up as Christians, Jews, or Muslims but no longer belong to a church, synagogue, or mosque community. Pagan tends to refer to those who are not Christian, Jewish, or Muslim or those who believe in multiple gods.

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• JO

  

  John

  Mar 30, 2022

  nudeyooper wrote: [quote] Our two most celebrated holidays are Christmas and Halloween, both with Christian origins that have taken on secular customs and traditions.[/quote] That's an interesting comment, considering that both of those holidays had pagan origins. Christmas co-opted the Roman festival of Saturnalia, the feast of the Winter Solstice. (Contrary to common belief, most Bible scholars today agree that Jesus was born in the springtime, when warmer weather allowed shepherds to graze their flocks by night. The New Testament itself provides no clues to the actual date.) And Halloween was borrowed from the Celtic religions that Christianity supplanted in the British Isles. They simply took the Samhain festival and moved it over a few days, to accompany and then replace All Hallows Eve, the prelude to All Hallows Day (better known in the Roman Catholic church as All Saints Day). And Easter? Likewise borrowed from a pagan spring festival dedicated to the goddess ostre, and this time they didn't even bother to change the name of the holiday, although they assigned to it a different significance: the resurrection of Jesus. As for "pagan," I'd go with a small-p definition, at least in Western European culture, as not being affiliated with Christianity, Judaism, or Islam or subscribing to the notion of a single God. But I doubt if Hindus would consider themselves as pagan. It's a catch-all term coined by early Christians to denote any pantheistic or animistic belief they wanted to stamp out. Big-p Paganism is a bit murkier. Since the rituals of pre-Christian cultures were largely obliterated by the Christian churches, the religious Paganist movement of today appears to be a blend of several non-Christian and largely pantheistic or polytheistic believes, rearranged to fit modern sensibilities. AFAIK, there is no centralized organizational hub or accepted common dogma for its practitioners. For more information, here's a link to the Wikipedia article on it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paganism

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• NU

  nudeyooper

  Mar 30, 2022

  I was well aware of the ancient connections to our modern holidays, but brought them into the conversation as something that for centuries had a Christian religion cause for celebration. Christ's birth, death, and resurrection have not been pinpointed on a calendar because the dates are not as important as the celebration. What I find as rather strange is the Gregorian calendar was commissioned because the church needed one that was more accurated to the movement of the earth around the sun so the correct date for Easter could be determined. Though it is thought that Christ's birth was actually in the springtime, and I believe that it was with about 6B.C. considered to be accurate. Easter, with it's connection to Passover would also be in the spring and having two holidays of near equal importance so close together might not work very well.
  Also puzzling to me is why the date for Easter is the first Sunday after the first full moon after the equinox when the Jews already had a way to determine the date for Passover, and Easter and Passover are connected, but not necessarily on the calendar.

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