Certification the age old thread — General Discussion on True Nudists

MemberOriginal Poster

Jul 6, 2011

pI am sure there are many posts on this but I feel I need to express my opinion as well./ppI do not know why actual nudist would not seek certification, I think this site needs to be more restrictive to non certified people. /ppI understand the people who are worried or have just cause to ensure privacy, and although there are never any guarentees, this is one of the best sites for security, and the options as to who sees or does not see any photos that you post./ppI find it frustrating to have people who have not even met the minimum of one photo, let alone certification, and they can cruze around and participate in chats and forums, without so much as any consideration for those who are, IMHO TRUE NUDIST./ppI know this sounds a bit hypocritical, but I only consider certified people as nudists, the rests are just here to surf through and have probably never even tried it./ppAs for those who are seeking cert and have not yet acomplished it, well perhaps there can be a pending indication./ppI do not buy into the "I submitted the pic and it has been weeks. I suggest to you that either you did not submit the right photos or it is a convienent excuse that you will ride until it stops working for you./ppMuscle up get certified, and as for this site, start truly restricting non cert members to encourage more real nudists./p

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ME
Member
Jul 7, 2011
Well, Rabbitnbunny, it is a load of rubbish, and for one simple reason, Certification has to do, and only to do, with identification. It says absolutely nothing about the Certified member being a nudist or believing in any nudist philosophy. It is one of the great misconceptions of this site, that Certified members are truenudists. And this misconception is used by some masquarading as Certified members to have their fun in the chats, preying upon new members. I have argued in the past that any Certified member flagged and that flagging found warranted, be banned from the site. Yet you and I know there are many examples of Certified members fluanting their non-nudist lifestyles, inappropriate photos and the like, flagged and flagged again by other Certified members and yet here they remain.
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EV
Evan-here
Jul 7, 2011
I really get a kick out of certified "True Nudist" thinking, or pretending they are even nudists. Just how does sending in two pictures make anyone anything? Does it mean they have gone to a resort? Been to a social nudist event? Ever been anywhere outside the bedroom naked? The correct and only answer in NO. Now lets turn the tables around a little bit, Why is it there are so many so called " True Nudists" that don't want to toughen up the Certification Process? Is it Because they are the Fake nudists? That they are here Posing as nudists to gain Pictures at no cost to them selves? They demand trust, and proudly state they are True Nudists, but when one does get "busted" for non nudist conduct the Scream seems to be, " well it only means that they are a man or woman, not nudists. Then they turn right and want respect and trust because they are, please, that makes no sense. Almost all will say they don't want to toughen the process because it will be too hard and may chase new people away. Really? Now why would it do that? They could come here just as they do now. There are many good reasons for people not wanting to get certified they way the process works now, for one sending in photos to some unknown person, trusting that the pictures would never be shared. Really, is that not the same as taking someones word for it that they are nudists? You bet it is. NO one here ever sees TT1, there is no office to find to complain to if you picture does get used, no recourse. Here is another funny thought, why is it that is someone here suggests limiting pics, or picture trading, it's the " certified" nudists who seem to scream the loudest. While I haven't been to ever resort in the country, most don't allow, or have a strict camera policy, so apparently they understand the need of many not to have pictures of them nude. Also, if you call your self a " true nudist" then you must have been in some kind of social nudist setting, really, if your a real " True Nudist, you should have been in many social nudist settings. So you haven't seen enough nude bodies? Do you think something has changed? Some women look different? The old " you should be Proud of you body" has nothing to do with showing it off to stranges. Here is another one True nudist use, Well some of us can't go meet others, or we live too far away from a resort. So, be happy with clothed pictures. YOU want more people to get certified make it mean something, make it tougher to gain certification so people can have faith in the fact that who they talk to are really nudists, someone that they may trust in.
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ME
MemberOriginal Poster
Jul 8, 2011
I think the essence of my message may have been lost, in this time of many people who are not who they say they are, certification helps keep people a bit more honest. I said nothing about photos, or specifically nude photos, other than the one you submit, which btw if you are holding the sign in the right place and you are nude nothing much has to show. You can scenery picutures for all I care. Becaue you signed a morality clause, and you are restricted from doing certain things does not make that the norm, it make you one of the ffew who may have this issue. The point is, I think that to encourage people to sstand up and say this is me, this site should be much more restrictive to thos who are not certified.
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CO
Curt, or Cowboy
Jul 8, 2011
[quote]Secondly where is the site owner's pic? I don't believe there is one. So if this person believes so strongly that "certified" nudists should have a pic then why don't we see one of him or her?[/quote] Fact is, TT1 does have photos in the "member" profile, not the TT1 administrative profile, but you'd have to know who it is to know who it is. TT1 has chosen to remain essentially anonymous, and I'm not gonna "out" anyone without their advance approval. I only post at all to say that TT1 has put money where his mouth is, so to speak.
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EV
Evan-here
Jul 8, 2011
Hey guess what, we all have cert pictures here to, just can't tell ya the name. Ask TT1 next time ya see him. Please. To say this system isn't prefect is putting it mildly. It would not be hard to make it better, or even have different levels of certification, so the question still is, why don't the certified members what it, why do they keep avoiding the issue? Why encourage more to do it, and give some of those that don't such a hard time? WE all should work together to make this place a little more secure, if not, change the status to "person who sent in Pictures" not " True Nudist".
There are many good Honest nudists here that would offer to help to make this a better place, perfect, no, but much better. I wonder how many software people are here, if not willing to do the work, at least they may be able to offer suggestions on what is possible. I believe there are many more who would become paid members, and certified, if it meant something. Here are a few quick thoughts just off the top of my head.
Level 1 certification - one on one with a mod. Better yet, one on one with two different mods. That may take a few chat room sessions, but more then possible.
Level 2 - complete level one + have a membership in a group or club such as aanr. I'm sure even europe has organized groups. Yes, it does have a cost, but so do most groups.
Level 3 - completed level one and two, and have met with another lever 3 user or a mod face to face. If listed as a couple, both must be part of the meet up. This is harder to do, but not impossible, it can be done in two steps. First have a level three user in every state, one who has been verified and can be trusted. It should not be hard to find one in every state, it would only take time to get one in all the areas we have members, but it could be done, little to no cost other then time.
Those are just quick thoughts, any other thoughts are welcome, lets not aruge, let move forward to make this place safer, and more honest.
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ME
MemberOriginal Poster
Jul 10, 2011
Just curious, but where is all the research about the certified people who are fakes and fake pics and all the rest that is being spouted by the no pic no profile person. Like was said earlier, the Cert adds some legitimacy to the profile, and indicates that the person is willing to join the site as it was meant to be. I will state again that it is time that TN restricted the non certs to very limited access, especially pic viewing, chat and forums, these should be a priveledge not the right of pic trollers or trouble makers. There should be enough access to allow the unsure enough visiblity to understand what the site is about and then they can make the informed decision to either get cert and continue or not, fairly simple IMO.
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WE
westheathen
Jul 10, 2011
Champion, it seems to me that it is you who needs to do the research, so that you know what you are talking about. If you did minimal research on here you would find that the certification photos are entirely independant of the photos which are in a persons profile. The certification photos are not posted to the person's profile unless they choose to do that.
Also on your allegation of NIM being irrelevant; I would suggest you take a couple of steps back and view the situation as a newcomer would. Who would you believe more "relevant" - the person who has been a member for sometime and participates FULLY in the site; or someone who has been a member for a couple of months and whose only purpose on the site seems to be to sniping at other members and general trolling? If you are as unhappy with the site as you seem to make out why stay?
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westheathen
Jul 11, 2011
As sugggested if you do not like the site LEAVE it is as simple as that.
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ME
MemberOriginal Poster
Jul 11, 2011
Champion, you spout all kinds of attackes and slurs to others who post their opinion, your ignorance is obvious when your only recourse is to attack people personally. It is unfortunate that you are unable to debate a topic without the childish comments. I fell sorry for you that you have such a dim view of the people here and perhaps all around you. Good luck.
You are a prime example of what the heart of this topic is, restricting people who are just here to troll and add no value to the site.
Cheers
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CO
Curt, or Cowboy
Jul 11, 2011
[quote]2.) Certified and Welcoming- Based on all that I have seen and read, these are the True Nudists. They are accomodating and engaging. They enjoy the site for the most part the way it is, appreciate the fact that they can be certified without restriction, and as certified members they enjoy rightly deserved additional privileges. They understand the concerns of non-certified members.[/quote] Just one correction. Certification gains nothing at all as far as additional privileges, deserved or not.
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EV
Evan-here
Jul 11, 2011
Why is so much time wasted here in this Forum on pointing fingers and name calling. Here is the way it looks to me, we have some older certified members, in saying older I'm only refering to time on the site, who like think the cert process is perfect and look down upon members who don't believe it is. Many times with name calling. My question to them is why do they fear making the process harder? They don't want to do anything more than what they have done already. Well, isn't that what they saying about the non cert members, that they are unwilling to do more than they have to? I have yet so see anyone on here offer any Ideas on how to make it better. A way for people to get certified with out sending pictures to someone they don't know, or see, with a promise that no one will ever see them. Instead of name calling, can't we all work together to come up with other ways, ways that may work for more and make certification mean something? The certified members who don't want to change are just as bad as anyone on the other side of the debate. Let's stop all the name calling and talk and work together. Champion, what would you be willing to do to get certified? Nude in Ma, why would be acceptable to you? This site has many excellent members, real honest nudists, some certified some not, would not our time be better spent bring all these great members together rather the creating a larger divide?
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ME
MemberOriginal Poster
Jul 11, 2011
Thanks nude, as for the fear of people seeing the pictures, I find it funny to see a non Cert profile and there plenty of photos of the person(s) clothed nude or what ever, but they still do not send in for Cert. The point of this thread was to give Cert members priviledge, and deny access to some of the things to encourage Certification. For those who do not upload pics at all, well that is thier choice, I am sorry for those who for employment reasons or any other such reason is unable to get Cert. It does take all kinds to make this site continue to be interesting and fun. But I always assumed when I joined, that the non cert membership was to be a temperary one until you decided to trust, like want to continue, to use this site. Not a way to sit in the shadows and call people names for thier opinions.
Quite simply all I wished to see in this thread was different peoples point of views, and not this is it, and if you do not like it then you are less of a person, these types of arguements from some members further my cause to have to certified to be able to stand up for your opinions like normal person in society.
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CO
Curt, or Cowboy
Jul 11, 2011
[quote][quote][/quote]Curt, All due respect my friend, I think certified gets greater access to profile info and has the "certified only" forums. I would guess that TT1 & 2 give higher levels of credibility to the thoughts in those threads.[/quote] I'd forgotten about the certified forums. The only other thing, would be photo's marked for certified only. ( if there are any ) Other than that, nada. Profile info is available to anyone, except profiles marked private, which are not available to anyone except those on that person's friend list, whether or not they are certified.
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EV
Evan-here
Jul 11, 2011
I agree there is not fool proof system that would keep all the bad apples away, nothing is fool proof or perfect. However, I do feel there are betters ways then the present one, and perhaps also ways for some who some very valid reasons do not wish to post nude photos. Different levels of certification maybe. How about for those who who live to far from a resort of beach or are unable to afford a membership in AANR or TNS, they can get still use this method, but change it for reading they are a certified nudist to only stating they sent in pictures as a way to prove they are who they say. That could be a level one certification, just as the forum has different levels, from textile to super, we could have a that for the cert process.
Adding another method for those who can't, or don't wish to do that, should not be that hard for the level headed people we have on this site.
The idea is not to exclude people, only to thin out a few more of the bad ones and to gain a few more of the good ones. That is the my thoughts on providing another method to become a level 1 certified member.
The idea behind having different levels, well, the higher the level, the harder it will be for "Bad Apples" to gain trust of the newer members. How to accomplish that. well i wish there was an easy answer, but like many things in life, with enough people caring and wanting to improve and willing to put some effort in, it can be done. Perfect ? No, but better, yes.
As to pictures taken at a resort, I agree, they do that to protect privacy of people attending, but if someone doesn't want there picture taken at a resort would they not be reluctant to send in a photo relying on trust alone. Would they be fine with the person at the resort telling them not to worry that they will edit them out at home? I sense they would be uncomfortable with either.
Rule one of the internet, what goes on the web, stays on the web, a promise that no one will see it and that it is destroyed does not bring comfort to some, closed site or not. For those with something to risk, it's hard to forget that rule.
Beach photos, sure, many have been taken, and while no one may have said anything, I don't know if someone inquired what snuggles was doing with a camera or not, you can bet he did draw the attention of some. Once spotted, perhaps they noticed care was being taken not to include strangers in background and chose not to say anything, but you can bet at least a few people there not in the TN group noticed and watched.
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ME
MemberOriginal Poster
Jul 23, 2011
Well Said
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RE
renebbare
Jul 23, 2011
You know, I have quickly looked at most of the posts here and (I opologise if incorrect) there seems to be no alternative proposed to the certification process - not one.
What about a credit card? I'll borrow one off Dad to prove my age - will that make me a Certified Truenudist?
What about a scan of my ID card, passport, etc. - Again I can 'borrow' Dads', he won't mind, Certification, I can see it now.
I could show myself on Cam? - Would that make me a Certified Truenudist?
I say these things in jest as none are perfect and hopefully you can suggest more. But the bottom line is that we have a system here that is pretty good and there are many who would not like to have to 'prove' themselves!
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JU
justbeyourself
Jul 23, 2011
Well as a relative new comer, I can't yet testify to the behaviors of other users, but people are people no matter where you go, and this isn't my first rodeo.

I don't see certification being significant in my decision making process about who to associate with, seems there would be those of ill repute, or high moral standard in both categories.

Many people have legitimate reasons to withhold images, careers could be at stake (both current and not yet realized), custody arrangements could be affected, copyright concerns, stalking issues, just to name a few.

In light of the fore mentioned, some users may have questions about the process of sending a personally identifiable nude image of them selves to an unknown entity via the internet. A few lines on the certification page assure that the images are confidential. But what does that mean? Where does my data go after it passes through my router? How many middlemen are involved in that process before it reaches it's destination? Who is the "agreement" with? Does it still stand if the site is sold to new owners? How binding is that promise? Does it matter what state I live in? What if I move? What if the site's servers move? What, if any, are the consequences of defaulting on the agreement? Does anyone care more about my privacy than me? Who has access to my data? What if the current laws governing data storage / mining / selling change? What are the current laws? What if my data is hacked? What distinguishes ownership of data?

Many things can happen beyond the control of the entities entering in to the agreement. Software and devices continue to evolve, a mountain of information about your everyday affairs are already tracked. Many cameras store identifiable information on each image, even as simple as a serial number, and it's not a hard reach for bots to crawl the web for all occurrences of that information, like when you filled out the registration card on the new device you got for Christmas. Some devices attach much more information to images, even the GPS location and time an image was shot. Consider where technology has come in the last twenty years, I remember the days before public internet, if you do too, did you ever conceive of Youtube, and hand held video cameras carried on seemingly every man, woman, and child? What will the next few years bring? Will you be able to Google an image, and recognition software will render all current and backed up images matching similar biometrics? Maybe just snap a person's image with your cel phone, and immediately see criminal records, credit rating, any web based information that can be unearthed?

It doesn't seem unreasonable to exercise a little caution, you can't unring the bell. Personally, I hope I'm dead before all my dirty laundry can be aired out. If my fellow nudists don't feel it's necessary for them to "certify", I see it as a personal choice. It would be a shame to dismiss that many potential friends over such a trivial matter. So, who wants to go get certifiably naked with me? ;)
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