Does nudism/naturism have an image problem

Replies

• SA

  

  Stone Andy

  Jan 21, 2023

  The narrator of this video posted this on a site often used for porn and cites the injustice of two nudist youtube bloggers. The first is an attractive Australian "pretty girl" who is popular and the other one a single male whose channel was deleted and could only be restarted if he didn't appear naked.
  This discrimination is no different than nudist resorts that ban single men. Like youtube algorithms, resorts only welcome women (and their men if they stay in the background). Nudism's image problem starts within nudism itself in its failure to be inclusive. Therein lies its demise.

  ReactReply
• MA

  

  ManOfWicklow

  Jan 21, 2023

  As long as it keeps attracting the morons who use nudism for their perverted idea of what naturism actually is, then genuine nudists will always have a problem with public image.

  ReactReply
• EA

  

  EarlDOriginal Poster

  Jan 21, 2023

  Further adventures in missing the point Andy

  ReactReply
• EA

  

  EarlDOriginal Poster

  Jan 21, 2023

  Any thoughts on how to counter or even if that is possible? [quote]As long as it keeps attracting the morons who use nudism for their perverted idea of what naturism actually is, then genuine nudists will always have a problem with public image.[/quote]

  ReactReply
• MA

  

  Marcus

  Jan 21, 2023

  Complain at Google that they must change their algorithm and rank the videos higher which are in line with the definition of nudism and naturism. This will be much more work for Google to evaluate, but it is worth a try. A good task for AI?

  ReactReply
• EA

  

  EarlDOriginal Poster

  Jan 21, 2023

  Big task to be sure. However Google is rolling out a new algorithm that is says will focus more on accurate and useful content than just words. Keywords is what pushes the non naturism related stuff to the top of searches and provides the most misinformation. Will have to wait and see how it plays out.
  Doesnt help that some so called naturist perpetuate the distortions
  [quote]Complain at Google that they must change their algorithm and rank the videos higher which are in line with the definition of nudism and naturism. This will be much more work for Google to evaluate, but it is worth a try. A good task for AI?[/quote]

  ReactReply
• ME

  Member

  Jan 21, 2023

  [quote] Nudism has an image problem (literally)[/quote] I beg to differ. The image problem isn't just in the online world. It's at every nude beach here - it's the overwhelming representation of a single group of people and their antics. I've blogged about this before. Equally once online and using this site as an example we get the same overwhelming representation of the same group. Where I do agree with this guy is the great need for the nude community to have far greater inclusion and leadership by those other than middle aged western European extracted males!

  ReactReply
• EA

  

  EarlDOriginal Poster

  Jan 21, 2023

  This is interesting to hear since whenever I have raised this on this site I get accused of being exclusive overly dramatic, and prudish. [quote]Yea it does. Nudism attracts the freaks. For us it got so bad that we decided to no longer visit our favourite nude beach at Byron Bay. My wife didn't feel safe, and we were accosted time and time again by males who couldn't keep their sexual urges in check.[/quote]

  ReactReply
• ME

  Member

  Jan 22, 2023

  It is an interesting video but it is one man's opinion. Not sure how you counter the internet and porn links occurring if people honestly search nudism wanting to learn or get some re-assurance about what to expect, what's acceptable etc. Maybe all we can do is post good information, real nudist / naturist information, not stuff that has sexual connotations. We are all sexual beings but I agree with the guy in the video, nudity is not about sex, it's about that great experience to be nude in nature.

  Also, what we can all do is call out bad behaviour, people who go to beaches purely to try to pick up and for casual sex. These beaches were not legalised for sex, they were legalised so we could swim and walk and get sun without any clothes..

  I had a great experience today, called at a CO beach and there was a group of younger people together (maybe 12-15), enjoying the day naked at the beach. They were not people my age and older, they were all 25-35 I'm guessing and that's unusual in my recent experience.. I walked back to the carpark and we all waited to the last minute to put clothes on. They laughed as I did the same, I was going to walk naked back to the carpark if they were going to, safety in numbers and all that but everyone thought no, lets not upset any textiles. Disappointing in a way, but respectful so that's a good thing.

  ReactReply
• SA

  

  Stone Andy

  Jan 22, 2023

  This thread illustrates exactly what the image problem with nudism is. Everyone on it myself included is part of a group of aging western European extracted males. Fundamentally we have more in common in holding a set of standards and decent behavior while naked in social and public than what differentiates us.

  Somehow were caught up in judging others as freaks, morons who use nudism for their perverted idea of what naturism actually is, see ourselves as some arbiter of a true nudist/naturist definition and even holders of a golden algorithm, all while feeling victimized for being exclusive, overly dramatic, and prudish. Meanwhile, younger adults find safety in numbers on their own naked terms. They are unlikely to call themselves nudists nor do they seek our true nudism approval. Talk with those younger adults and youll likely find that theyre equally annoyed by perverted casual sex as our overbearing and tiresome nudist white old dude pontification. Soonbnude is on the right track in his positive interaction with the next generation. We need to be such a wise and compassionate role model mentor more than the world needs any more old dick rants on vimeo.

  ReactReply
• EA

  

  EarlDOriginal Poster

  Jan 22, 2023

  You know Andy your self righteousness is really not flattering to to. You make grand statements based on cherry picked facts to suit your opinion. Like saying Vimeo is a platform for porn. So you latest diatribe Syrians credibility.
  Can you share your last interaction with young people in any naturist setting? When was your last visit to a clothing optional beach? You so easily disparage the naturist lives of others when you inject your personal view and experience into every single post you can. Did you know the man that you dismiss and demeaned so easily is a well regarded naturist fiction author with several published books to his name. Did you know that he knows the young people he mentions as examples? Likely not because all this is for you is another opportunity to ply the one trick pony views that you have expressed consistently.

  ReactReply
• EA

  

  EarlDOriginal Poster

  Jan 22, 2023

  Curious you should say that its just one mans opinion because same could be said about anyones opinion. I heard more than just inappropriate sexual behavior described as part of the image problem in the video. I heard issues of diversity of bodies, and racial diversity. I heard issues about nudism as looking rather than participating. I dont know how to counter the internet issue either but I think it is worthwhile having a conversation about how that influences the way new people first learn about nudism and then choose to engage. The problem isnt too dissimilar to the historical situation when nudists won the legal right to publish and distribute their magazines only to see girls then porn mags take advantage of that hard fought legal battle. [quote]It is an interesting video but it is one man's opinion. Not sure how you counter the internet and porn links occurring if people honestly search nudism wanting to learn or get some re-assurance about what to expect, what's acceptable etc. Maybe all we can do is post good information, real nudist / naturist information, not stuff that has sexual connotations. We are all sexual beings but I agree with the guy in the video, nudity is not about sex, it's about that great experience to be nude in nature. [/quote]

  ReactReply
• MA

  

  Marcus

  Jan 22, 2023

  The problem that some see naturism as sexual is as old as naturism. In 1900 when Ida Hofmann started the Monte Verita in Ascona some people thought naturism is about free love and swinging. Ida banned them altogether. They started a new "nudist" colony where they could do their swinging.

  ReactReply
• EA

  

  EarlDOriginal Poster

  Jan 22, 2023

  Thanks for sharing that historical tidbit. Do you have anymore info on Hoffman or a source for the same.

  ReactReply
• ME

  Member

  Jan 22, 2023

  [quote]Yea it does. Nudism attracts the freaks. For us it got so bad that we decided to no longer visit our favourite nude beach at Byron Bay. My wife didn't feel safe, and we were accosted time and time again by males who couldn't keep their sexual urges in check.[/quote] And as a community we wonder why we can't get new clothing optional beaches approved (and keep the ones already approved)!

  ReactReply
• EA

  

  EarlDOriginal Poster

  Jan 22, 2023

  Fascinating point given the response from one of the commenters who joins the crowd of those who would deflect from the real issue at hand to place blame on those raising the concern even as Haulover beach nudist just issued a warning of concern about this very thing. Where will all the young people who are being limited by clueless old folks go then. Thank you for staying connected to the reality of the situation and making a factual comment. [quote] And as a community we wonder why we can't get new clothing optional beaches approved (and keep the ones already approved)![/quote]

  ReactReply
• SA

  

  Stone Andy

  Jan 23, 2023

  [quote]Fascinating point given the response from one of the commenters who joins the crowd of those who would deflect from the real issue at hand to place blame on those raising the concern even as Haulover beach nudist just issued a warning of concern about this very thing. Where will all the young people who are being limited by clueless old folks go then. Thank you for staying connected to the reality of the situation and making a factual comment.[/quote] I believe that "one of the commentators" you're referring to is me. You think I miss your point, but I understand that there real freaks out there. I just don't think criticizing them will help. At the same time I don't believe you are seeing my point. As men of a certain age that grew up in a time when nudity wasn't a sexually laden social behavior, we need to do a lot more as mentors and role models to normalize healthy social nudism. It can start in places like CO beaches where people are fortunate to have them. Where they don't, resorts and organizations like AANR are a worthy focus. We can't bemoan the decline of nudism when we don't even allow children of nudists to experience social nudism. When moral judgment is placed on others (including genuine freaks) without a willingness to consider the implications of structural discrimination in nudism, it smacks of hypocrisy. It may not matter if I avoid calling myself a nudist a result, but the future of nudism is precarious when youth like my sons who are comfortable with nudity shy away from nudism as repressive rather than liberating.

  ReactReply
• EA

  

  EarlDOriginal Poster

  Jan 23, 2023

  Most of the Christian naturists I've encountered tend to fall in the Evangelical camp. However there has been some significant writing on the subject of Christian nudity from Catholic circles. I have some extensive historical research (footnotes and source documents provided)on the subject here. Evangelical pastors were at the forefront of American nudism in the early. It is on recently that specific branch of evangelicals what become vehemently against social nudity. [url][link]/link/bd08a4b653cb03a7/aHR0cHM6Ly9jbG90aGVzZnJlZWxpZmUuY29tL25hdHVyaXN0LXdpa2kvY2hyaXN0aWFuLW5hdHVyaXN0cy8%3D[/link]https://clothesfreelife.com/naturist-wiki/christian-naturists/[/url] [quote] Maybe evangelicals are less tolerant of nudity than Catholic and Orthodox Christians.[/quote]

  ReactReply
• ST

  

  StevieLorna

  Jan 24, 2023

  I watched the video last night and I agree on-line naturism does have an image problem.

  I do think it all depends though on which way you come at it.

  As a younger man I was aware of naturism, but it wasnt something I gave much thought to. It wasnt until we discovered a CO beach that we took the plunge and never looked back. Becoming a naturist that way, you learn the etiquette on the monkey see monkey do principle. You quite quickly realise that simply being nude does not change anyones behaviour.

  If you come to naturism through the internet then you bring your own preconceptions of what it is and anyone who tells you that those preconceptions are wrong you get to call a dinosaur or troll and demand they change naturist principles to suit them and their particular kinks. I dont see how this is ever going to change.

  The only advice I can offer to the internet naturist, is go to a beach, see what its like. Youll either love it or get so board with the lack of sexual activity that youll go and find something else to do.

  ReactReply
• EA

  

  EarlDOriginal Poster

  Jan 24, 2023

  I think you got the point of the video and the what keeps getting missed because we seem to lack the capacity to have reasoned conversations. The point is this - how a person first encounters naturism impacts what they perceive it to be and how they view naturist behavior. Since we are in a time where many if not most people first encounter naturism on the internet the distorted views on the net generate distorted behavior. I first explored naturism through the internet. Most all the groups and website were focused on pics and photos looking not doing as the video suggests. When I got to experience naturism I real life it was so different. There was very little looking and lots of thing to be doing. Turns out online naturism is not the same as naturism in real life. We now live in age where online is perceived to be as real as real life. Yet everyday we hear about online influencers who are just personas and not expressions of real people. Sadly the human need for belonging often leads us to accept the reflection of belonging instead of actual belonging. High levels of social media connection and low levels of belonging. True in broader society and true in naturism. [quote] If you come to naturism through the internet then you bring your own preconceptions of what it is and anyone who tells you that those preconceptions are wrong you get to call a dinosaur or troll and demand they change naturist principles to suit them and their particular kinks. I dont see how this is ever going to change. The only advice I can offer to the internet naturist, is go to a beach, see what its like. Youll either love it or get so board with the lack of sexual activity that youll go and find something else to do.[/quote]

  ReactReply
• ME

  Member

  Jan 24, 2023

  [quote]This thread illustrates exactly what the image problem with nudism is. Everyone on it myself included is part of a group of aging western European extracted males. Fundamentally we have more in common in holding a set of standards and decent behavior while naked in social and public than what differentiates us. ... Meanwhile, younger adults find safety in numbers on their own naked terms. They are unlikely to call themselves nudists nor do they seek our true nudism approval. Talk with those younger adults and.. .[/quote] Look up my Forum posts and my Blogs - am saying the exact same thing. The face of our community needs to change to a more diverse and inclusive face otherwise it will in its current form die out. Get Naked Australia seems to have a healthier approach to inclusion. A seemingly greater female participation too.

  ReactReply
• ST

  

  StevieLorna

  Jan 25, 2023

  [quote] The face of our community needs to change to a more diverse and inclusive face otherwise it will in its current form die out..[/quote] In 5 weeks, we will, once again be on holiday at a naturist village in Spain. Anyone can book a stay there. There are no exclusions. What more needs to be done so that it doesnt die out?

  ReactReply
• JO

  

  John

  Jan 25, 2023

  nuddycouple wrote: [quote]What is the solution then? Education, exposure, people to actually come forward with who and what they are. It's funny that nudists seem to have an exposure issue, but there really are no primary outlets that are willing to take the issue of nudism seriously. I was in a discussion group where a bunch of textiles were talking with a nudist and she was wearing a tube top. So at first it looked like she wasn't wearing anything. She then shifted in her seat and you could clearly see she was wearing something and the host commented saying he was glad she was wearing something. Most of the people in that group agreed. I mean how messed up is it if you are having a discussion with others about a subject, but you couldn't even present it while being naked? I get her choice, I get their relief, but come on! [/quote] I sent a proposal to the organizers of an Earth Day festival held in our city every year. The proposal was that our local naturist non-landed group have a booth where we could explain who we were, and hand out literature. We would be clothed, because the venue didn't allow nudity. But that was a concession we were willing to make, because the main thing was to get the message out that we were there, and that there were opportunities for people to be socially naked in our area. I don't know yet if they will accept our presence, but we figure that at least it's worth a try. The membership people for our group say that they're getting the best response for recruitment from Meetup, an online site that tries to match groups and activities with interested people. And our local free paper (which is no longer being distributed in print form, unfortunately) used to give a shout-out to our local nude resort every summer. If people don't have some reason to believe otherwise, they'll go with the current judgement of society about who we are: exhibitionists who want to flaunt our naked bodies and corrupt little children. The only cure for that, as you said, is education and exposure.

  ReactReply
• SA

  

  Stone Andy

  Apr 10, 2023

  [quote]I sent a proposal to the organizers of an Earth Day festival held in our city every year. The proposal was that our local naturist non-landed group have a booth where we could explain who we were, and hand out literature. The membership people for our group say that they're getting the best response for recruitment from Meetup, an online site that tries to match groups and activities with interested people.[/quote] These are great "sane" ways of locally promoting nudism. I also think it's important to draw younger people with activities that can be done naked such as swimming and bike rides. It takes the stress away from forced social interactions to just another way to exercise and mingle. Good luck on your proposal!

  ReactReply