I had an interesting dream about nakedness...What do you think?

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  noodengr2

  Mar 11, 2023

  And I thought I had vivid dreams.

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  Stone Andy

  Mar 11, 2023

  If your fish pants were uncomfortable, they'd ultimately affect how you swim, so you were right to ditch them. It's interested how those pants became a marker of your humanity and separated you from belonging to the greater fauna as a fish. There are spiritual practices related to the metaphor of breathing underwater to shed our fears and return to our root self. As the poet Hafiz expressed it many centuries ago: a fish in the water ain't thirsty. Shed your fish pants and live naked.

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• TD

  

  Tom D

  Mar 11, 2023

  Nothing to do with fish, but I often think that when European explorers and settlers reached tropical areas, it would have made more sense for them to ditch most of not all of their clothes and live appropriately (un)dressed like native population instead of expecting the natives to adopt European dress stand which makes little sense in the tropics.

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• ME

  Member

  Mar 11, 2023

  [quote]Nothing to do with fish, but I often think that when European explorers and settlers reached tropical areas, it would have made more sense for them to ditch most of not all of their clothes and live appropriately (un)dressed like native population instead of expecting the natives to adopt European dress stand which makes little sense in the tropics.[/quote] That's always an interesting perspective to explore and many cades of marooned seafarers showed that they would often 'go native'... But to truly understand why European folk expected the opposite is a huge study in psychology evolved out of sedentary living and is reflected in art, music, architecture and also engineering - European man come to believe they could control everything!

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  Tom D

  Mar 11, 2023

  [quote]Nothing to do with fish, but I often think that when European explorers and settlers reached tropical areas, it would have made more sense for them to ditch most of not all of their clothes and live appropriately (un)dressed like native population instead of expecting the natives to adopt European dress stand which makes little sense in the tropics.That's always an interesting perspective to explore and many cades of marooned seafarers showed that they would often 'go native'... But to truly understand why European folk expected the opposite is a huge study in psychology evolved out of sedentary living and is reflected in art, music, architecture and also engineering - European man come to believe they could control everything![/quote]
  
  Not only marooned seafarers but seafarers on-board in the tropics. One notable example is the Kon Tiki expedition. I read that the men essentially lived nude. Some of photos and movies taken on board couldn't be used because while the men who were the subjects put on shorts, there were nude ones in the background. As a marooned example, although a ficticious one, Tom Hanks in Cast Away found other uses for most of his clothing, leaving just enough cover to avoid an R rating!

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  StevieLorna

  Mar 12, 2023

  [quote]Nothing to do with fish, but I often think that when European explorers and settlers reached tropical areas, it would have made more sense for them to ditch most of not all of their clothes and live appropriately (un)dressed like native population instead of expecting the natives to adopt European dress stand which makes little sense in the tropics.[/quote] This is a bit silly thinking Minamilits. People living in the tropics are acclimatised to the sun the explores were not. If they abandoned their clothes they would burn badly and might even die from exposure or infection.

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  Stone Andy

  Mar 13, 2023

  Fish pants is a metaphor in the public domain. The 14th century Persian poet Hafiz explored the theme well in "Trying To Wear Pants."

  Dreams are private myths and myth is public dreams.

  "You are a royal fish trying to wear pants in a country as foreign as land. Now there's a problem worth discussing...."

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  Bill

  Mar 13, 2023

  With the real possibility of offending someone, I eagerly quote South Park:

  Do you enjoy eating fish sticks? Do you like putting fish sticks in your mouth? So what are you, a gay fish? Say it out loud to someone and you'll get it, but don't say it when they have a mouthful of something or you may get sprayed.

  I do have naked dreams pretty often now, not overly surprisingly with me having chosen a life of nudism over the clothed, closed-minded, shallow world outside our community's gates. Making naked normal in my psyche by only wearing clothes when I have to has turned into a lovely dream realized. I wish everyone could do it, and I know it would make the world a much calmer place if they did.

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  StevieLorna

  Mar 13, 2023

  I dreamed a dream in time gone by
  When hope was high and life worth living
  I dreamed that love would never die
  I prayed that God would be forgiving
  Then I was young and unafraid
  And dreams were made and used and wasted
  There was no ransom to be paid
  No song unsung, no wine untasted
  But the tigers come at night
  With their voices soft as thunder
  As they tear your hopes apart
  And they turn your dreams to shame

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  Stone Andy

  Mar 13, 2023

  [quote]I dreamed a dream in time gone by When hope was high and life worth living I dreamed that love would never die I prayed that God would be forgiving Then I was young and unafraid And dreams were made and used and wasted There was no ransom to be paid No song unsung, no wine untasted But the tigers come at night With their voices soft as thunder As they tear your hopes apart And they turn your dreams to shame[/quote] May your love never die, may you always know a forgiving God, may you be unafraid, singing all your songs, tasting all of your wine. May you pet all the tigers that come out at night through the gifts of your God-given strength, intelligence and perseverance. This I bless you that life is good and all shall be well.

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  EarlD

  Mar 14, 2023

  Curious what you know or understand about the colonial era in history? It might inform your comment [quote]Nothing to do with fish, but I often think that when European explorers and settlers reached tropical areas, it would have made more sense for them to ditch most of not all of their clothes and live appropriately (un)dressed like native population instead of expecting the natives to adopt European dress stand which makes little sense in the tropics.[/quote]

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• TD

  

  Tom D

  Mar 14, 2023

  [quote]Curious what you know or understand about the colonial era in history? It might inform your comment Nothing to do with fish, but I often think that when European explorers and settlers reached tropical areas, it would have made more sense for them to ditch most of not all of their clothes and live appropriately (un)dressed like native population instead of expecting the natives to adopt European dress stand which makes little sense in the tropics.[/quote] Not that much about colonial history in the tropics.

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  StevieLorna

  Mar 14, 2023

  Hes talking about you bringing up why explorers didnt adopt local dress customs.

  If you understood about colonial history then your input might have been more informed.

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  Brian

  Mar 14, 2023

  Going back to the dream.....
  I've had dreams where I was naked, or ended up naked, and spoken to others who have had similar dreams, but nearly always you are or end up naked due to some circumstance out of your control, its rarely your "fault" as it were. ..
  Interesting in this one it was your choice, not only that, but this was Caesar crossing the Rubicon, a point of no return, never any going back as you were fully aware, once off you had no way of ever putting them back on,
  In psychology, dreams are often a metafore for what's happening in real life, be interesting to know if you've had any big decisions to make that this might pertain to,
  The mind is a weird and wonderful thing, I often make big decisions based on the toss of a coin, not that I go with how it lands, but as soon as you toss it you somehow instantly know which way you WANT it to land, and that's the decision!!!!

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  John

  Mar 14, 2023

  minimalist wrote: [quote]Nothing to do with fish, but I often think that when European explorers and settlers reached tropical areas, it would have made more sense for them to ditch most of not all of their clothes and live appropriately (un)dressed like native population instead of expecting the natives to adopt European dress stand which makes little sense in the tropics.[/quote] From what I've read, English and American colonists went out of their way to preserve the culture they brought with them, even using clothing that made no sense in their present environment. And they usually brought with them a religion that frowned on public nudity in any form. It was their way of continuing to be the same people they were back home.

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  EarlD

  Mar 15, 2023

  Pretty accurate description of why the colonialists imposed their clothing choices on the indigenous people. Had very little to do with clothing on its own and everything to do with imposing "civilized" cultural values on the "savage" indigenous people. This was true throughout all European colonialism [quote]. From what I've read, English and American colonists went out of their way to preserve the culture they brought with them, even using clothing that made no sense in their present environment. And they usually brought with them a religion that frowned on public nudity in any form. It was their way of continuing to be the same people they were back home.[/quote]

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  Stone Andy

  Mar 15, 2023

  [quote]Hes talking about you bringing up why explorers didnt adopt local dress customs. If you understood about colonial history then your input might have been more informed.[/quote] In James Michener's Hawaii, written by an author known for his thorough historical research, he wrote about how the early Puritan missionaries were shocked at how natives swam naked in the ocean, fearing that it tapped into their reptile/fish brains which would effectively give up any ability to make rational, godly choices. I've read other accounts that economics and creating new export markets played an important role in early explorers and settlers disdain for local dress (or lack thereof) as well. Both England and the US had strong textile industries focused on wool and cotton, whereas tropical climates used native fibers. For example, in Hawaii clothes were made from kapa, a traditional textile made from the inner bark of the paper mulberry plant, and in the Philippines from pineapple fibers. Even if missionaries had no economic incentives, they were likely to view native technologies and materials as inferior and primitive compared to their manufactured products.

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  EarlD

  Mar 15, 2023

  Thanks for jumping in to the intention. Guess my effort at a gentle response was a bit unclear. e[quote]Hes talking about you bringing up why explorers didnt adopt local dress customs. If you understood about colonial history then your input might have been more informed.[/quote]

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  Stone Andy

  Mar 15, 2023

  [quote]Thanks for jumping in to the intention. Guess my effort at a gentle response was a bit unclear. Hes talking about you bringing up why explorers didnt adopt local dress customs. If you understood about colonial history then your input might have been more informed.[/quote] Yes, and your intention is still unclear. With a BA in history I won't claim "truth" but can see relationships between social mores, religious morals and global trade in the era of US colonialism. I'm curious on how would elaborate your concept of informed input regarding why explorers resisted or failed to adopt local dress customs.

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  StevieLorna

  Mar 16, 2023

  Not sure who exactly you are looking for a response from, but if its me

  I dont claim to have anything as honorific like a BA, much like minimalist, I watched a movie.

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  EarlD

  Mar 16, 2023

  Its that simple isnt it. [quote]Not sure who exactly you are looking for a response from, but if its me I dont claim to have anything as honorific like a BA, much like minimalist, I watched a movie.[/quote]

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• BI

  

  Bill

  Mar 16, 2023

  Minimalist states he read a book about the Kon-Tiki, not that his info was got from the famous movie about it, or that he watched the filmwork they took on board the ship during its famous voyage in 1947. The ambitious project was attempting to prove the hypothesis that native South Americans sailed west and populated the Polynesian islands. The movie based on the book Thor Heyerdahl wrote (and which he did direct) won an Academy Award for best documentary - if that sort of thing means anything to you.

  Norwegian culture has a long history of accepting nudism, from where Heyerdahl and four others in the six man crew hailed, so for some of them to be wearing nothing during a portion of their 101 day venture out into the open ocean does in no way surprise. The expedition did not end up proving that the migration of South Americans heading west formed the bulk of Polynesian populations, but recent DNA evidence does show at least some South Americans spreading west to Easter Island and beyond.

  Now then - weren't we talking about dreams?? Heyerdahl's dreams on board that ship must've been interesting.

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