JS
Jim ShortsOriginal Poster
Jul 15, 2015In the last big naturist forum and website I was a member of some years
ago, I was ostracized some for my views on body shame to the point of
even being called, "not a true naturist [or nudist]," and it was a
Christian group. I don't think some of the people were very nice,
loving or understanding, at all.
It my understanding that naturists should not ever be ashamed of their bodies. I cannot buy that, and I think it's different from being comfortable being nude, nude around others, recreating nude, etc. As a Christian, I do believe that all humans are created in the image of God physically (he looks like us and we look like him) whereas God's other creations are not, that the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit if one is a Christian, and of course Adam and Eve were naked and unashamed of their bodies before they disobeyed God, sinned and all of mankind suffered as a result. But, Adam and Eve were perfect, and they lived in a perfect environment that God had created for them.
Now days, we are not perfect. Many of us despite the above have allowed our bodies to become fat, out of shape and even chronically or or terminally ill. That is indeed shameful. I am ashamed of myself and my own body in these regards, and that's why I'm trying to improve in these areas of my life, finally.
I also understand that there's a difference between being unashamed and being proud of ones body, and perhaps that is the crux of the matter. I want to be proud of mine, and I will continue to work toward that end, but in the meantime I will be somewhat ashamed of the way I look, feel and treat my body. I know God doesn't want me unashamed much less proud of my body as it is now thus I seek to change for the better.
This is posted at the Texas Naturists Group and in the main forums here, and it is also posted at the Texas Naturists Facebook page. If you're in Texas, please my/our Texas Groups.
It my understanding that naturists should not ever be ashamed of their bodies. I cannot buy that, and I think it's different from being comfortable being nude, nude around others, recreating nude, etc. As a Christian, I do believe that all humans are created in the image of God physically (he looks like us and we look like him) whereas God's other creations are not, that the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit if one is a Christian, and of course Adam and Eve were naked and unashamed of their bodies before they disobeyed God, sinned and all of mankind suffered as a result. But, Adam and Eve were perfect, and they lived in a perfect environment that God had created for them.
Now days, we are not perfect. Many of us despite the above have allowed our bodies to become fat, out of shape and even chronically or or terminally ill. That is indeed shameful. I am ashamed of myself and my own body in these regards, and that's why I'm trying to improve in these areas of my life, finally.
I also understand that there's a difference between being unashamed and being proud of ones body, and perhaps that is the crux of the matter. I want to be proud of mine, and I will continue to work toward that end, but in the meantime I will be somewhat ashamed of the way I look, feel and treat my body. I know God doesn't want me unashamed much less proud of my body as it is now thus I seek to change for the better.
This is posted at the Texas Naturists Group and in the main forums here, and it is also posted at the Texas Naturists Facebook page. If you're in Texas, please my/our Texas Groups.
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- NANatureBoy24Jul 16, 2015I agree. I don't buy the whole "every body is beautiful" line. Obesity is a problem. It is a sign of illness. It leads to many other health problems. If you don't take care of your body, you should be ashamed.
That being said, I understand it is very difficult to do in the USA. Our national diet is terrible - it's designed to produce fat, sick people. Our jobs have become sedentary and our free time spent in front of TVs & computers. We have systemic cultural problems. Hopefully, we are starting to wake up as a society to these issues and we'll start to see real change over the next 20 years or so.ReactReply - DEDeepnagdaJul 16, 2015It is natural to be ashamed of the imperfections of one's body, but you have to overcome that to be a nudist, which also provides a degree of motivation to you to correct the defect (like obesity) to the best extent possible. There are aspects which cannot be corrected, like a small penis, and here you simply have to accept yourself as you are. Look up the motto of the International Naturist Federation, which states that it seeks to accept others as they are, through that to accept ourselves as we are (and get closer to nature) through total social nudity. At some point you have to accept your body as it is, while striving to improve it to the extent possible. If you do not do this, you will remain unhappy forever. Also remember (to paraphrase a famous quote regarding feet), 'I was unhappy because I had a small penis, till I met a man who had no penis at all'. Thank God for whatever you have, including life itself, and carry on..............ReactReply
- RA
RavenJul 17, 2015i know it is to make people bring more people to be nudist. and that all great and all our world is body conscious. with super models and playboy and hustler i know that porn but you see different type of girls but there not either fat they might have big boobs small boobs and the same for men. but in the chat room i see people click on your cam if they don't like what they see (this is more true if u are an guy in mid to early 30's) sorry every one is not pretty i don't want to see everyone naked. if thats does not make me an nudist well then i am an gamer :)ReactReply - ST
SteveJul 31, 2015Posters seem to agree that our food diets are bad. So's our media diet. The body is aninstrument. But ordinary, functioning bodies are no longer enough. Body shame is taught - coached by advertiser-driven media, with the plain intention to sell us stuff. Such shame is soul-deadening, and the nudist community is right to fight it.
Obesity is a major health problem, for sure. Shame doesn't help fight it. Just look at the cheap little womens' magazines at the checkout (Woman's World is the worst.) Always, a diet and a gooey recipe. Always. Shame is a trap.
Do we expect shame from diabetics, sufferers from lung cancer or melanoma, people disabled by sports injuries - all sorts of conditions that are arguably the result of behavior? No - we extend compassion.Why just bodies?ReactReply - KA
KaiAug 3, 2015[quote]Posters seem to agree that our food diets are bad. So's our media diet. The body is aninstrument. But ordinary, functioning bodies are no longer enough. Body shame is taught - coached by advertiser-driven media, with the plain intention to sell us stuff. Such shame is soul-deadening, and the nudist community is right to fight it.
Obesity is a major health problem, for sure. Shame doesn't help fight it. Just look at the cheap little womens' magazines at the checkout (Woman's World is the worst.) Always, a diet and a gooey recipe. Always. Shame is a trap.
Do we expect shame from diabetics, sufferers from lung cancer or melanoma, people disabled by sports injuries - all sorts of conditions that are arguably the result of behavior? No - we extend compassion.Why just bodies?
[/quote] I agree with absolutely all of this!ReactReply - JSJim ShortsOriginal PosterAug 3, 2015[quote]It is natural to be ashamed of the imperfections of one's body, but you have to overcome that to be a nudist, which also provides a degree of motivation to you to correct the defect (like obesity) to the best extent possible. There are aspects which cannot be corrected, like a small penis, and here you simply have to accept yourself as you are. Look up the motto of the International Naturist Federation, which states that it seeks to accept others as they are, through that to accept ourselves as we are (and get closer to nature) through total social nudity. At some point you have to accept your body as it is, while striving to improve it to the extent possible. If you do not do this, you will remain unhappy forever. Also remember (to paraphrase a famous quote regarding feet), 'I was unhappy because I had a small penis, till I met a man who had no penis at all'. Thank God for whatever you have, including life itself, and carry on..............
[/quote]I don't understand your post, because you don't define, "Overcome," "Nudist," and "Accept." In what ways do you mean?ReactReply - JSJim ShortsOriginal PosterAug 3, 2015[quote]Posters seem to agree that our food diets are bad. So's our media diet. The body is aninstrument. But ordinary, functioning bodies are no longer enough. Body shame is taught - coached by advertiser-driven media, with the plain intention to sell us stuff. Such shame is soul-deadening, and the nudist community is right to fight it.
Obesity is a major health problem, for sure. Shame doesn't help fight it. Just look at the cheap little womens' magazines at the checkout (Woman's World is the worst.) Always, a diet and a gooey recipe. Always. Shame is a trap.
Do we expect shame from diabetics, sufferers from lung cancer or melanoma, people disabled by sports injuries - all sorts of conditions that are arguably the result of behavior? No - we extend compassion.Why just bodies?
[/quote]I totally disagree with you on this, Sir. I couldn't loose weight until I became somewhat ashamed of myself. Hell, I couldn't even admit that I was obese. It's impossible for anyone to correct any problem unless they realize that that the problem exists.
However, I also believe that there's a monumental difference between being ashamed of something in one's own life and being shameful and/or critical of others. Of course I would be perturbed if someone treated me that way. I was speaking more of self perception. I am quite disabled (combat veteran), as are all three of my children, and if anyone ever tried to shame us, I would be up in arms, except for with me; I suppose. People can call me whatever they want to, so long as they don't call me late for supper.ReactReply - JSJim ShortsOriginal PosterAug 3, 2015[quote]
[/quote]The opposite of shame is pride. It's a good thing to be proud of one's thinner and more muscular body, so why wouldn't the opposite be true?ReactReply - SCscotsnudistAug 4, 2015
I think there's a number of issues here:
1 body shame and body shaming are slightly different things. Body shaming, I.e. Shaming or shunning someone else because of their appearance is totally wrong always. It never helps and is never justified. Obese people won't suddenly start losing weight because you say they are fat or disgusting or anything else
2 feeling shame in yourself is a different matter, but I suggest that shame is a very strong word/emotion. I am overweight and would certainly like to lose some weight so that my health improves and get fitter so that I can do more things. That doesn't mean I feel shame in my body. It is my body and the only one I've got and it serves me well, even if it could be improved. I don't agree that you need to feel shame in order to recognise that you may feel better if you lost weight or got fitter etc
3 my preferences and desires are not the same as anyone else's. I may think that I'm too fat and need to lose some weight that doesn't imply that anyone else should feel the same way. It's their choice
4 we should be careful not to equate a person with their body, even our own. We are so much more than just a body. If you are looking to see beautiful bodies, there's plenty of porn sites with people with specific body types and possibly airbrushed photos you can go look at. If you want to connect with real people the way their body looks should be immaterial. The kind of person they are is what mattersJust my thoughts
ReactReply - MEMemberAug 4, 2015I'm pretty impressed when someone starts a constructive thread about a topic that is a hot button that so many of us will not broach.ReactReply
- TR
TravellingbizguyAug 4, 2015My thinking has always been that true nudists are all accepting and one's body is just that, it is one's body and does not reflect them being a nudist or welcome in a nudist environment.
That being said, I do think we all have a flaw on our bodies which we don't like or something we would like to change, be it a nose or a beer belly, a birth defect or a scar. Some things we can change and some we have to accept of ourselves. Some people have incentive to do these things, and in some cases the funds to do them, and others might need a life moment before a change is begun.ReactReply - STSteveAug 5, 2015@jimshorts: I'm glad it worked for you.ReactReply
- JSJim ShortsOriginal PosterAug 5, 2015[quote]I think there's a number of issues here: 1 body shame and body shaming are slightly different things. Body shaming, I.e. Shaming or shunning someone else because of their appearance is totally wrong always. It never helps and is never justified. Obese people won't suddenly start losing weight because you say they are fat or disgusting or anything else 2 feeling shame in yourself is a different matter, but I suggest that shame is a very strong word/emotion. I am overweight and would certainly like to lose some weight so that my health improves and get fitter so that I can do more things. That doesn't mean I feel shame in my body. It is my body and the only one I've got and it serves me well, even if it could be improved. I don't agree that you need to feel shame in order to recognise that you may feel better if you lost weight or got fitter etc 3 my preferences and desires are not the same as anyone else's. I may think that I'm too fat and need to lose some weight that doesn't imply that anyone else should feel the same way. It's their choice 4 we should be careful not to equate a person with their body, even our own. We are so much more than just a body. If you are looking to see beautiful bodies, there's plenty of porn sites with people with specific body types and possibly airbrushed photos you can go look at. If you want to connect with real people the way their body looks should be immaterial. The kind of person they are is what matters Just my thoughts[/quote]I think we're both agreeing and disagreeing on some points. On your first, you make a pretty big generalization stereotyping obese people. If I had not been called obese by my doctor (written in my records) and told about the health-related issues that I had related to it, I would not have felt shame, and i would not have, "Suddenly decided to loose weight," as you put it. "Doing things," that I have not been able to do, looking better, not dying, having more money, etc., were additional benefits...icing on the cake.
People equate others with their bodies in all areas of life in different ways and for different reasons. Of course, I agree with you that we all are far more than our bodies, but that doesn't mean we should let our bodies go to hell.
I certainly am not looking to see, "Beautiful bodies," in any nudist environment, but I do admire beautiful bodies over ugly ones. Being a naturist isn't about looking at others, but I do prefer beautiful bodies over ugly ones, and that includes my own body.
I don't know what you mean, "Connect with people," but I agree if you mean we should not be judgmental and shaming of others, if that's what you mean.ReactReply - JSJim ShortsOriginal PosterAug 5, 2015[quote]I'm pretty impressed when someone starts a constructive thread about a topic that is a hot button that so many of us will not broach.
[/quote]Yeah, I'm smart like that. ;-) JKReactReply - JSJim ShortsOriginal PosterAug 5, 2015[quote]I'm glad it worked for you.
[/quote]Thanks, if you're addressing me.ReactReply - JSJim ShortsOriginal PosterSep 8, 2015[quote]I'm pretty impressed when someone starts a constructive thread about a topic that is a hot button that so many of us will not broach.
[/quote]Thanks, y'all.ReactReply - JSJim ShortsOriginal PosterSep 8, 2015[quote]@jimshorts: I'm glad it worked for you.
[/quote]Thanks, Steve! Hopefully, being more self aware (better term than body shamed) will help me continue my recovery.ReactReply