why are men allowed to take their shirts off,but not women ????

TheWildApacheOriginal Poster

Jul 28, 2012

It really annoys me how men are allowed to take their shirt off in public yet women are not they have to weara bikini at least .i beleive that women should be allowed to walk around with no shirt or bra on in public with out being fined or taken to court by the police. I also belive that complete public nudity should be allowed for both genders . -TheWildApache

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DA
DanandJanette
Aug 27, 2012
[quote]BTW Dan your profile says you are in Canada- yet you sound so darned middle-american- I'm truly sorry for that.[/quote] Although you didn't mean it as such, I take that as a compliment. Thank you.
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MA
ManOfWicklow
Aug 27, 2012

[img id=img_caption_1721308 class=pinit alt="Moira Johnston" src="http://i.huffpost.com/gen/708416/thumbs/s-MOIRA-JOHNSTON-large.jpg" width=260 height=190> [img src="http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2012/05/20/news/web_photos/20.1N010.topless1--300x300.jpg">

When most people see Moira Johnston walking through the streets of New York, they probably aren't thinking "freedom fighter," they're thinking, "That woman's topless."

But to Johnston, politics and breasts go hand in hand -- although, truth be told, one is more preferable to actually hold.

The 29-year-old topless dancer from Philadelphia may be baring her breasts for money at night, but during daylight hours, she lets people view them free of charge in order to make a point about true equality.

I want women to know their rights and to give them the courage to go topless too, she told The Daily Beast. Its not that I want everyone to take off their shirt, but Im supporting a womans choice to do it and think every woman should do it on her own terms.

Johnston didn't start out to being a bare breast activist. That role was thrust on her in January when, during a yoga class, she took her top off in class.

Some of the other yogis complained about her bare breasts and Johnston thought it unfair that guys are allowed to walk around shirtless while women have to keep their boobs covered.

Since May, Johnston has been seen strolling around New York topless as a part of a Kickstarter campaign to protest society's notions that breasts need to be covered up and also to remind other women that, under New York law, they have the right to bare their chests, just like men.

But many people are unaware of Johnston's rights to go topless -- including the New York Police Department, which arrested her in May.

Johnston said she was detained in handcuffs and forcibly had her shirt put over her breasts after people complained she was topless near a children's playground.

In the end, cops didn't charge her,[img src="http://beautyandthebestoftherest.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/moira-johnston-11.jpg">
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DanandJanette
Aug 27, 2012
And had they charged her, it would have been thrown out. Sad to see so many creeps with their cell phones out taking pictures.....probably so they can brag about it at their local watering hole.
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SO
Soupie
Aug 27, 2012
And I still don't understand why Dan doesn't emigrate. To him, the U.S. is a paradise of comfortable paradoxes.
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SO
Soupie
Aug 28, 2012
this coming from a senile fool who throws his shit everywhere, all over this site? Now that is funny.
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Curt, or Cowboy
Aug 28, 2012
[quote]It is becoming blatantly obvious, that one does need to think seriously about responding to any threads in the forum for fear of being maligned..(by a certain few......(no name will be mentioned)..what a sad state of affairs has the forum become.............sad too sad...
[/quote]Well, that's one way to look at it.
The lack of moderation that has caused this does have an up-side though....
One can post any sort of drivel one wishes.
As I've posted in past years on this site, any reasonable intelligent discussion will be buried under trolls trolling for trolls, and those same trolls arguing amongst themselves who is the troll, all the while trolling for more.
The result being that like another current thread, there will be maybe a dozen, maybe two dozen relevant on-topic posts, and 14 pages of the troll wars.
The advantage, you see, is that I can post anything at all. This post is currently #54 or so, but when the thread explodes into hundreds of troll posts, pages and pages of useless tripe, this post will be lost to utter obscurity, never to be seen again.
As long as whatever you post is not in the first five or so, almost no one will ever see it, or know about it, as normal people become bored with the troll wars after about three of the insulting, offensive, off-topic nonsense, and we all go elsewhere.
It is, IMHO, one big reason all the regulars we knew and loved three or so years ago are today difficult, if even possible, to find anywhere in this forum.
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renebbare
Aug 28, 2012
Post constructively? Sometimes even wittily - but without insulting? One could even ignore those insults, if you have broad shoulders and a broad mind.
Most of all, post on nudism - make reasonable points, about nudist values, and don't use a single example, to try to prove, or disprove, an accepted rule.
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RO
RodneyB
Aug 28, 2012
I really have never understood that myself. Many act like it is the worst thing in the world if a woman breast feeds in public even if they cover their breast which I feel they should not have to do.

Why is it ok to show people killing each other on t.v. but not to show a breast? Which one is going to affect children in a more negative way? They not only show violence but they make it look cool, and then wonder why kids are shooting up schools.

Maybe if the children saw nudity they would not be so worried about getting a girl naked at 15 years old. People are so twisted that they think if children see nudity it will make them want to have sex, but it is actually the other way around, if they saw it more they may not feel like they are missing out on something and will realize that the human body is just that, a body.

I think clothing should only be required for what it is made for, comfort and protection. People should be free to choose what to wear (or not wear) whenever and wherever they want. If you are doing work that could be dangerous or working around food that others are going to be eating then clothing is needed. If it is snowing outside, you probably need clothes. If it is the middle of summer and the sun is beating down on you, why should you have to wear clothing.

Clothing is only needed because society has been brainwashed for generations into thinking that they must not show any skin and that nudity is sexual.

Where would you draw the line with nudity? Should nudity be allowed in schools, grocery stores or restaurants? I think clothing is needed in grocery stores for the same reason they now make you wear shoes and shirts. Most nudists know how to conduct themselves and understand things like hygiene in a nudist setting, but if the general public were to start going to the store nude there would be problems. I am sorry but I personally do not want to buy apples that people's asses have rubbed against.

I see no difference between a man without a shirt and a woman without a shirt other than one's breasts have a purpose and the other doesn't. Even children are taught that little girls have to wear shirts, even though there is no difference between boys and girls until they get older.

Everyone seems to think that nudity is about seeing other people naked or showing off what you have.

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renebbare
Aug 28, 2012
[quote]The one consistent thing about NudeinMa is that he tends to drag others down to his level...[/quote]Sad that so many should wish to descend there.
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Soupie
Aug 28, 2012
Your concept that "godless liberals" are in charge of anything is so ridiculous and laughable.
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JA
jason
Aug 28, 2012
if more women went nude it would save thousands of husbands from having to answer that no win question - "does this dress make me look fat?"
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Soupie
Aug 28, 2012
Yes, and exactly the type of rhetoric that the repugnican party would attack. So why do you keep voting for them?
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MI
Mitch
Aug 28, 2012
In Austin, Texas along with many other cities, women can be topless anywhere a man can be.

It just depends on each cities governing body and what they say. It takes people to change what is by bringing attention to these ideas.

In many places it is illegal for a woman to breastfeed in public. In others, it is not. Not all babies are bottle-fed. So that forces some to have to go hide in a restroom stall to feed their child?

yes, this may be an extreme example, but it does show how far some places go to hide any type of nudity. It's the old, "If we hide the issue, then people will forget about it" argument.

On the other hand...unless you are at the beach, when do you really see men with out shirts? jogging/running. I am guessing that women wear tops when running to avoid causing stress or pain in their breasts. (Women, please correct me if I am mistaken). Men, who do not have such mammary glands do not have to worry about that issue, just the occasional sunburn.

I myself have not seen anyone, man or woman just walking around shirtless for no apparent reason.

I am off the soapbox now....next!

Stay naked!
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RA
ravensflyinnow
Aug 29, 2012
[quote][quote]XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

What amazes me is that no one has pointed a bony finger and screeched, "It's those Bible-thumping Christian far-right extremists who are forcing women to cover their breasts!" That is the standard "argument" when the subject of enforced prudity arises. By that inane logic, the streets of Moscow and Beijing and Hanoi and Pyongyang and Havana and Cairo and Baghdad and New Delhi should be topless paradises. Are they? By that loony logic, women should be topless by the thousands in every US city where Godless liberals have been in control for decades. Are they?

Looking at the social/cultural patterns re nudity over hundreds of years, it is obvious that the more "civilized" man becomes, the more oppressive and domineering he becomes. There might be religious "arguments" cited to support prudity, but at its core is the human obsession wih power and control over others. It's not a matter of decency and modesty, but of the few telling the many that they must do or cannot do this or that.

One ages-old human failing is the automatic equation of nudity with sex. Far from that BS being countered by enlightened people, it is being exploited for profit. Those who do so have a vested interest in maintaining the lie that nudity = sex. There is money to be made in nakedness, or in selling illusions of modesty.

Consider the multi-billion-dollar porn industry that does its worst to depict every case of human nudity in terms of repulsive sexual activity, because people who are conditioned to view nudity as sexual will buy their vile wares to satisfy their lusts.

Consider the "entertainment" industry that counts on glimpses of naked skin and groping bodies to boost ratings or box-office take.

Consider the "naughty" bedroom apparel companies that tantalize by covering just enough of the female body to stimulate the male imagination.

Consider the trillion-dollar clothing retailing industry that keeps us in several layers of textile exoskin.

In each case, the driving force is money. Imagine the economic disaster that the exploiters would face if humankind decided that being nude is NOT "dirty" or exciting, but rather is just another mode of dress that offers freedom from the bondage to textiles, the healthful effects of sunlight, and the true equality that is provided a lifestyle devoid of the trappings of wealth, authority and status.

Take away the ingrained psychological addiction to clothing and the cultural equation of nudity with sex, and the profits will plunge. Ergo, those in power will never allow that to happen. They have too much to lose if humanity ever pulls its collective head out of its arse and goes clothesfree.

Nudism will never be widely accepted because it destroys the illusions.
[/quote]
Bravo, Prosaist Extraordinaire. It is this sort of discussion that elevates threads. It touches on religion and on politics. It is well considered, polite, and intellectually honest. And it ---the quoted part----is devoid of personal attack.[/quote]Yes!! The dream team! You 2 are what elevates every thread in these forums. We are so lucky to have you as members. All Hail the Dream Team.. add danandjanette, and we will have quite the Dream Threesome!! Oh! and MoW will of course, be your cheerleader!!

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ME
Member
Aug 29, 2012
[quote]add the powers, and danandjanette, and we will have quite the Dream Foursome!! Oh! and MoW will of course, be your cheerleader!![/quote]What on earth did I do to warrant this swipe?
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Soupie
Aug 29, 2012
Probably because you love the hypocrisy of Gollum and Bruce.
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ME
Member
Aug 29, 2012
[quote]Probably because you love the hypocrisy of Gollum and Bruce.[/quote]And which of my posts leads you to this conclusion?
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ravensflyinnow
Aug 29, 2012
[quote]With the troll suitably dispatched, back to the thread topic.

What amazes me is that no one has pointed a bony finger and screeched, "It's those Bible-thumping Christian far-right extremists who are forcing women to cover their breasts!" That is the standard "argument" when the subject of enforced prudity arises. By that inane logic, the streets of Moscow and Beijing and Hanoi and Pyongyang and Havana and Cairo and Baghdad and New Delhi should be topless paradises. Are they? By that loony logic, women should be topless by the thousands in every US city where Godless liberals have been in control for decades. Are they?
[/quote]What amazed me was that NiMA presented an argument against himself. No one pointed a bony finger, and screeched anything. Then he goes on to insult nonexistent foes. He is THEE main reason why so many threads go into the sewer, and yet you all support him. Why? Because he claims to be a Christian! (I know of no Christians that would treat another living being as poorly as NiMA) He's ultra-conservative and he's on your side. He's quite the poster child for you guys, along with Dan, with his Muslim remarks and his obvious hatred towards gays. Oh yeah....Peace and Blessings!! (what a hypocrite)

Bruce, you too, need to take responsibility in bringing many of these threads down to the sewer with your arrogant and condescending 'civility', and the need to have the last word.

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ME
Member
Aug 29, 2012
[quote]What amazed me was that NiMA presented an argument against himself. No one pointed a bony finger, and screeched anything. Then he goes on to insult nonexistent foes. He is THEE main reason so many threads go into the sewer, and yet you all support him. Why? Because he claims to be a Christian! (I know of no Christians that would treat another living being as poorly as NiMA) He's ultra-conservative and he's on your side. He's quite the poster child for you guys, along with Dan, with his Muslim remarks and his obvious hatred towards gays. Oh yeah....Peace and Blessings!! (what a hypocrite)

Bruce, you too, need to take responsibility in bringing many of these threads down to the sewer with your arrogant and condescending 'civility', and the need to have the last word.[/quote]Well, then let me take this opportunity to distance myself from all the hateful nonsense. I have not been around here long and would like to be judged on my own merits (or demerits) and not be lumped into some already existing group that may have some prior baggage on this site. Just to note, I have expressed disapproval of personal attacks or otherwise hateful interaction (from my side too) in the following threads:

Post #40:http://www.truenudists.com/forum/viewthread.php?id=38217&page=2

Post #174:http://www.truenudists.com/forum/viewthread.php?id=36140&page=7

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ravensflyinnow
Aug 29, 2012
[quote]Ravens,
How is it arrogant and condescending to:

- call for civility

-lead by example in that call

- ignore repeated insults

- engage in civil debate rather than give in to PC nonsense

- maintain my position, but admit when I am wrong

- publicly AND privately "reach out a hand of friendship" to my "opponents" in debate

hmmmm? The way I was brought up, those are the actions of a gentleman. Have I ever told you to shove it? No. Have I ever tried to censor your opinion or slander you? No. In fact, StevefromKona-an apparently devout liberal not unlike yourself, has even indicated that I have not engaged in what you call taking it to the sewer. It seems to me that you simply have a grudge. Frankly, I wish you acted more now like you did in the beginning when you and I had ----civil ----discussions, before you got all hateful toward me. I would welcome your return to that behavior.

[/quote]oh...i forgot feigned innocence too!!
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Soupie
Aug 29, 2012
Have you ever admitted being wrong? Not that I can recall. Even when your Fox News posts were debunked, you didn't address that. Just claimed that you were trying to be "funny".
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Soupie
Aug 29, 2012
Well, you do throw a lot of "fecal matter". But that's what you are here for.
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RA
ravensflyinnow
Aug 29, 2012
[quote][quote]add the powers, and danandjanette, and we will have quite the Dream Foursome!! Oh! and MoW will of course, be your cheerleader!![/quote]What on earth did I do to warrant this swipe?[/quote]I'm sorry, and i removed you from the foursome and made it a threesome, I read something somewhere and believed you were aligned with the other 3...excuse me, for my mistake, your postings here have been calling for a much more friendly forum.

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FL
Flokie
Aug 29, 2012
[quote]But we don't know if it's a man body.[/quote]Soupie,
Why is this so important to you? If someone wants to post a photo that's fine but there are plenty here who choose not to for one reason or another and that's fine too. Bruce contributes well thought out postings and while I don't agree with everything he posts, he participates on the forum in a respectful manner.I've been chatting online since I discovered IRC twenty years ago and I really cannot say that I have found "certified" people or those who post photos of themselves to be any more genuine than those who don't.
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