wouldn`t it be a reward?

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• ST

  

  Steve

  Mar 8, 2016

  Nudity is a particular cultural and religious problem for the most observant Muslims, something the "interrogators" of course know, and are willing to exploit. Like most of the enhanced techniques, this is less about interrogation than it is about extrajudicial punishment.
  

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• ME

  Member

  Mar 9, 2016

  Nudity would be an embarrassment-or should I say humiliation-for many in an interrogation regardless of their beliefs or comfort being nude. Being stripped of everything against your will-including your clothes-is far from a nudist comfort zone. Besides, I doubt there are many jihadist nudists. The thought seems to me to be a contradiction.
  As far as the enhanced interrogation techniques-I read a book written by a top CIA official at the time. He makes a strong case in favor of EIT and the justification for it. As with many things on both the left & the right; the subject was over-politicized. Our Navy SEALs were treated to the techniques for training purposes. They are not pleasant, but torture is a stretch. I'm pretty sure the EIT's never occurred at Gitmo. (btw-I think we should close Gitmo. As soon as we build its replacement in a more appropriate place---like one of the far Western Aleutians!)

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• DE

  

  DesertRat

  Mar 9, 2016

  Bruce: Political note here. The reason Gitmo works so well is that it is not on US soil. If the prison was moved to the Aleutians, as you suggested, it would be on US soil and the detainees would immediately become subject to and protected by US laws and the US Constitution.

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• ST

  

  Steve

  Mar 9, 2016

  Navy guys treated to these techniques know what the limits are - they will not really be drowned, they will eventually be allowed to sleep. Their experience just can't be the same as that of the actual prisoners.
  
  A though experiment: Say an Irish girl falls in love with a guy who gives her, unknowingly, luggage with a concealed bomb, to carry onto a plane. He has told her that very bad people are out to get him. She is caught, and other intelligence indicates that the guy is involved in additional very dangerous activity. She may have enough info to help the authorities find the guy. But she's in love, can't believe her boyfriend is a bad guy, and is afraid for him, and won't talk.
  
  How do you feel about covering her face with a cloth and pouring water on it and making her think she is being drowned? How do you feel about stripping her naked while a bunch of guys look on, acting scary? She herself has done nothing wrong except fall for the wrong guy. If these techniques are really about extracting information, then this scenario is just fine. If it makes you squeamish, then there's an element of punishment there; we only do these procedures to bad guys.
  
  

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• MA

  

  macnude

  Mar 9, 2016

  Regardless of one’s religious values or comfort level at being nude in the presence of others, even we lifelong nudists would feel vulnerable ifforced to strip nakedwhile being interrogated by those in full combat gear.   I have been of the opinion, for many years, that the reason nudist groups are generally very friendly is that aggressive tendencies are subdued once that thin level of protection that clothing provides is removed. In spite of our enjoyment of the nudist life, there remains an underling feeling of vulnerability.   This vulnerability when exploited as an interrogation technique can be quite useful.
  

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• KO

  

  Kohaan

  Mar 9, 2016

  If you think it would be a reward, you will probably never be put in that situation... That type of technique would be used on some people, because it works on them, right?      ... In your case, they would force you to put clothes ON. ;-)
  - - -  In war, innocent people are often caught in the middle.  ... and, the politicians who start the war are rarely on the physical front lines, where they belong. ... But, IMHO, the REAL WAR, isnoton the physical battlefield.  The real war is in the mind...  Who will control your mind, and as a result, control your actions? ...  Does anyone actually think you can get real respect... by DEMANDING it?   Try to imagine a world where people earn respect by offeringand deliveringwin/win - golden rule type - options...   If you think that is possible, it still is. ... but if you think it isimpossible...  then what?
  
  

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• ME

  Member

  Mar 10, 2016

  [quote]Bruce: Political note here. The reason Gitmo works so well is that it is not on US soil. If the prison was moved to the Aleutians, as you suggested, it would be on US soil and the detainees would immediately become subject to and protected by US laws and the US Constitution.[/quote] Yes, I'm aware of that. Part of such a plan would be a declaration of war. POW's can be held until the war is over. They would be there for life-this is not ending anytime soon. Besides-these people are lawyered up already. The winds of the Bering Sea, to me seems to be a much more appropriate place for these animals compared to warm Caribbean breezes. Besides, Attu Island is 5,147 miles closer to Mecca! Surely, the ACLU would support housing them closer to their homes!
  

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• ME

  Member

  Mar 10, 2016

  [quote]Navy guys treated to these techniques know what the limits are - they will not really be drowned, they will eventually be allowed to sleep. Their experience just can't be the same as that of the actually prisoners.
  
  A though experiment: Say an Irish girl falls in love with a guy who gives her, unknowingly, luggage with a concealed bomb, to carry onto a plane. He has told her that very bad people are out to get him. She is caught, and other intelligence indicates that the guy is involved in additional very dangerous activity. She may have enough info to help the authorities find the guy. But she's in love, can't believe her boyfriend is a bad guy, and is afraid for him, and won't talk.
  
  How do you feel about covering her face with a cloth and pouring water on it and making her think she is being drowned? How do you feel about stripping her naked while a bunch of guys look on, acting scary? She herself has done nothing wrong except fall for the wrong guy. If these techniques are really about extracting information, then this scenario is just fine. If it makes you squeamish, then there's an element of punishment there; we only do these procedures to bad guys.
  [/quote]
  KSM knew of the techniques. He learned  to count with his fingers while they were "waterboarding" him and knew that they would stop after a brief period-a matter of seconds. While doctors were present. Still, he broke and gave very valuable information. Countless lives were saved as a direct result of the information he provided.
  
  KSM planned 9/11. And beheaded Daniel Pearl with his own hands-you can find the video online. He is hardly an innocent sweet Irish lass swooning over her Dream Boy.
  
  Only two other people were "waterboarded". And they were no more human than that animal.
  
  Oh- and our version of "waterboarding" is nothing compared to what the Japanese did to our boys at Cabanatuan. True waterboarding consists of sticking a running hose down a prisoner's throat until he bursts inside.
  
  Our techniques had a cloth over the face, very limited amounts of water and time, with medical professionals observing. They were designed so that drowning would have been impossible. Our EIT's were justified, controlled, humane, and very very limited. Possibly too much so.
  
  A couple of books as reference-neither political, and both very interesting reads--extensive thought experiments.
  
  The book "Hard Measures" by Jose Rodriquez about the EIT program-it gives some interesting insight into the transformation of the CIA in response to 9/11- as well as telling about the career of a very interesting guy. It includes details of just how careful we were in preparing the EIT's and conducting them.
  
  The book "Ghost Soldiers" by Hampton Sides is about the raid on the camp to save the survivors of the Bataan Death March.
  
  Both very good reads for anyone who likes history. Regardless of your politics.
  
  
  
  
  
  

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