Complacent and Happy? — Legal Issues on True Nudists

macnudeOriginal Poster

Feb 7, 2010

Complacent and Happy? DON’T BE From time to time, we hear of yet another clothing optional beach where officials have decided that anti-nudity laws should be enforced. When is the last time you have heard of a new beach being designated as clothing optional? The pure and simple fact is that no legislator or any other elected official will support nudism if they feel it will cost them a single vote. It seems ironic that the first amendment to the US Constitution protects the widespread dissemination of pornography while nudists can be arrested for skinny dipping. Violation of contemporary community standards seems to be the argument for forcing the nudists off of the beach. Is there anything that the individual nudist can do to swing the balance in our favor? Swaying public opinion and media support seems essential. Letters to the editor of the local newspaper advocating the establishment of clothing optional beaches in designated areas while questioning whether it would indeed be a violation of contemporary community standards may be of help. Suggest that a scientific poll be taken to see how the community really feels. Many non -nudists have skinny dipped and find it harmless fun. Helping to promote the July 10th Record Skinny Dip in your area could help. A great deal of positive publicity was generated in this area before and after last years event. For those who are willing in becoming proactive in preserving the little we have left as nudists, a group has been formed here on TN.;"NUDISTS WHO WANT ANTI-NUDISM LAWS CHANGED OR OVERTURNED./http://www.truenudists.com/group/1296/

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Cheri Donna Dawson
Feb 7, 2010
One of the reasons we staffed a booth at Mayfest (a now defunct Columbia street festival through which over 30,000 people passed) was to have nudism part of the community standards since the booth was accepted for inclusion in the festival for a number of yeas until the city discontinued the festival.
I wish there were another venue....Any who are AANR members here have the option of staffing a booth at a local RV show or other appropriate venue.
Cheri
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blueiron35
Feb 7, 2010
Im headed to that group right now Art.
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macnudeOriginal Poster
Feb 7, 2010
[quote]Im headed to that group right now Art.[/quote] That's great. I hope many join you and become active.
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ME
Member
Feb 7, 2010
Joining now, Mac. Terrific idea for a group.

Jen and Steve
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macnudeOriginal Poster
Feb 8, 2010
[quote]Joining now, Mac. Terrific idea for a group. Jen and Steve[/quote] Snuggllebunnies, DMK1984 deserves all the credit for the creation of this group and should be applauded for his effort I strongly agree entirely with the goals and will actively support it. My hope is that many TNs will follow suit.
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Gerry-4
Feb 8, 2010
[quote]Complacent and Happy? DON’T BE For those who are willing in becoming proactive in preserving the little we have left as nudists, a group has been formed here on TN.;"NUDISTS WHO WANT ANTI-NUDISM LAWS CHANGED OR OVERTURNED./http://www.truenudists.com/group/1296/[/quote] I've noticed that most of the postings deal with U.S. situations, and the laws vary from state to state. In Canada, nudity is covered in the criminal code. This comes fromhttp://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/C-46/page-4.html#anchorbo-ga:l_V-gb:s_173. I've included the law against indecent acts for information purposes.Indecent acts173. (1) Every one who wilfully does an indecent act (a) in a public place in the presence of one or more persons, or (b) in any place, with intent thereby to insult or offend any person, is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.Exposure(2) Every person who, in any place, for a sexual purpose, exposes his or her genital organs to a person who is under the age of 16 years is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.Nudity174. (1) Every one who, without lawful excuse, (a) is nude in a public place, or (b) is nude and exposed to public view while on private property, whether or not the property is his own, is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.Nude(2) For the purposes of this section, a person is nude who is so clad as to offend against public decency or order.Consent of Attorney General(3) No proceedings shall be commenced under this section without the consent of the Attorney General. In some areas or for some cases, a provincial attorney general may not want to consent. Police then try to convict for an indecent act. Note, however, the definition of nudity. Someone could be wearing clothes and still be found guilty of being nude. Whether this actually happens is unknown to me at the point.
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Gerry-4
Feb 8, 2010
The following is mostly a rehashing of a blog posting at my profile page, which came about following discussion regarding the decline of naturist centres in North America. So many of them are closing without finding new naturist owners that many members are concerned.

While the decline is unfortunate, it also signals the need to change the direction of naturism. For so long we have relied on business people and business organizations to run centres and resorts. But if the lifestyle is to reach a larger audience, we will eventually have to come out of hiding.

In the past, this was exceptionally difficult. Today, we have social networks, both nudist ones like this one and others, to spread the message of non-sexual nudity. Some posters to this Forum topic find nude beaches too dangerous because they aren't all properly supervised by safety officers or lifeguards. Yet that's one of the places we have to go. In today's economy and considering the priorities of young people today, we have to have beaches, parks and other centres that are RELATIVELY CHEAP and EASILY ACCESSIBLE. To some degree, we have to claim some spaces. Our small numbers don't exactly help.

If one or two of us show up at a relatively secluded section of beach and are found out, we get arrested. But what if 50 of us showed up? Or even 100? The three most important elements in any political or social struggle are numbers, numbers and numbers. When I first posted the message to my blog, I was still trying to find a 10th naturist from New Brunswick, Canada, on this site. To do that, we have to reach people and get the message out.

I don't have all the answers, though. Any suggestions?
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GE
George_in_WV
Feb 8, 2010
I just joined that group too. I try to do what I can to promote our nudist way of living. Two years ago I was given a written warning by the Florida Parks Service for being in violation of their anti-nudity statute. Some of the people in the group with me were given citations and told to appear in court on a certain day. When they went they were told that the citations were not on file with the court clerk so that was the end of that. Last year a group of us went canuding in the same park without any problems.

When I lived in MA I was a member of a club that put up a booth at one of the RV shows. While there were no fully frontal photos of people on the display board it was quite clear that we were a nudist campground. Many of those that passed by our booth showed interest and picked up some of our handouts, while other people would stand as far across the room as they possibly could and just look at us. I think they did not want to get too close to us for fear that they would catch that disease that makes people go out and about without their clothes on.
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macnudeOriginal Poster
Feb 8, 2010
[quote][quote]Complacent and Happy? DON’T BE For those who are willing in becoming proactive in preserving the little we have left as nudists, a group has been formed here on TN.;"NUDISTS WHO WANT ANTI-NUDISM LAWS CHANGED OR OVERTURNED./http://www.truenudists.com/group/1296/[/quote] I've noticed that most of the postings deal with U.S. situations, and the laws vary from state to state. In Canada, nudity is covered in the criminal code. This comes fromhttp://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/C-46/page-4.html#anchorbo-ga:l_V-gb:s_173. I've included the law against indecent acts for information purposes.Indecent acts173. (1) Every one who wilfully does an indecent act (a) in a public place in the presence of one or more persons, or (b) in any place, with intent thereby to insult or offend any person, is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.Exposure(2) Every person who, in any place, for a sexual purpose, exposes his or her genital organs to a person who is under the age of 16 years is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.Nudity174. (1) Every one who, without lawful excuse, (a) is nude in a public place, or (b) is nude and exposed to public view while on private property, whether or not the property is his own, is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.Nude(2) For the purposes of this section, a person is nude who is so clad as to offend against public decency or order.Consent of Attorney General(3) No proceedings shall be commenced under this section without the consent of the Attorney General. In some areas or for some cases, a provincial attorney general may not want to consent. Police then try to convict for an indecent act. Note, however, the definition of nudity. Someone could be wearing clothes and still be found guilty of being nude. Whether this actually happens is unknown to me at the point. [/quote] Gerry, Thanks for the update on Canadian law. Writing strictly as a layman, it appears there is little difference, here, below the border. Though the anti-nudity laws, here, may vary in wording from state to state they are just that, anti-nudity. I refuse to dignify them with the term “decency laws”, which our legislators prefer to use. While in some states, certain mitigating factors are written into the law, in others, one may be arrested if one can be seen in a public place only though the use of binoculars while concealed by a sand dune. The few places we have where public nudity is tolerated, namely the clothing optional beaches, are generally not legal but but unenforced. This, of course, puts their very existence at the whim of any public official. A story regarding the closing of what was once a CO beach can be found,here:http://www.wwaytv3.com/no_birthday_suits_just_bathing_suits_bird_island/04/2009
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ME
Member
Feb 8, 2010
[quote][quote][quote]Complacent and Happy? DON’T BE For those who are willing in becoming proactive in preserving the little we have left as nudists, a group has been formed here on TN.;"NUDISTS WHO WANT ANTI-NUDISM LAWS CHANGED OR OVERTURNED./http://www.truenudists.com/group/1296/[/quote] I've noticed that most of the postings deal with U.S. situations, and the laws vary from state to state. In Canada, nudity is covered in the criminal code. This comes fromhttp://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/C-46/page-4.html#anchorbo-ga:l_V-gb:s_173. I've included the law against indecent acts for information purposes.Indecent acts173. (1) Every one who wilfully does an indecent act (a) in a public place in the presence of one or more persons, or (b) in any place, with intent thereby to insult or offend any person, is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.Exposure(2) Every person who, in any place, for a sexual purpose, exposes his or her genital organs to a person who is under the age of 16 years is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.Nudity174. (1) Every one who, without lawful excuse, (a) is nude in a public place, or (b) is nude and exposed to public view while on private property, whether or not the property is his own, is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.Nude(2) For the purposes of this section, a person is nude who is so clad as to offend against public decency or order.Consent of Attorney General(3) No proceedings shall be commenced under this section without the consent of the Attorney General. In some areas or for some cases, a provincial attorney general may not want to consent. Police then try to convict for an indecent act. Note, however, the definition of nudity. Someone could be wearing clothes and still be found guilty of being nude. Whether this actually happens is unknown to me at the point. [/quote] Gerry, Thanks for the update on Canadian law. Writing strictly as a layman, it appears there is little difference, here, below the border. Though the anti-nudity laws, here, may vary in wording from state to state they are just that, anti-nudity. I refuse to dignify them with the term “decency laws”, which our legislators prefer to use. While in some states, certain mitigating factors are written into the law, in others, one may be arrested if one can be seen in a public place only though the use of binoculars while concealed by a sand dune. The few places we have where public nudity is tolerated, namely the clothing optional beaches, are generally not legal but but unenforced. This, of course, puts their very existence at the whim of any public official. A story regarding the closing of what was once a CO beach can be found,here:http://www.wwaytv3.com/no_birthday_suits_just_bathing_suits_bird_island/04/2009[/quote] Hey Art, The Bird Island link is no good. Will you pleae try to repost it? Thanks! Jen
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macnudeOriginal Poster
Feb 8, 2010
[quote][quote][quote][quote]Complacent and Happy? DON’T BE For those who are willing in becoming proactive in preserving the little we have left as nudists, a group has been formed here on TN.;"NUDISTS WHO WANT ANTI-NUDISM LAWS CHANGED OR OVERTURNED./http://www.truenudists.com/group/1296/[/quote] I've noticed that most of the postings deal with U.S. situations, and the laws vary from state to state. In Canada, nudity is covered in the criminal code. This comes fromhttp://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/C-46/page-4.html#anchorbo-ga:l_V-gb:s_173. I've included the law against indecent acts for information purposes.Indecent acts173. (1) Every one who wilfully does an indecent act (a) in a public place in the presence of one or more persons, or (b) in any place, with intent thereby to insult or offend any person, is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.Exposure(2) Every person who, in any place, for a sexual purpose, exposes his or her genital organs to a person who is under the age of 16 years is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.Nudity174. (1) Every one who, without lawful excuse, (a) is nude in a public place, or (b) is nude and exposed to public view while on private property, whether or not the property is his own, is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.Nude(2) For the purposes of this section, a person is nude who is so clad as to offend against public decency or order.Consent of Attorney General(3) No proceedings shall be commenced under this section without the consent of the Attorney General. In some areas or for some cases, a provincial attorney general may not want to consent. Police then try to convict for an indecent act. Note, however, the definition of nudity. Someone could be wearing clothes and still be found guilty of being nude. Whether this actually happens is unknown to me at the point. [/quote] Gerry, Thanks for the update on Canadian law. Writing strictly as a layman, it appears there is little difference, here, below the border. Though the anti-nudity laws, here, may vary in wording from state to state they are just that, anti-nudity. I refuse to dignify them with the term “decency laws”, which our legislators prefer to use. While in some states, certain mitigating factors are written into the law, in others, one may be arrested if one can be seen in a public place only though the use of binoculars while concealed by a sand dune. The few places we have where public nudity is tolerated, namely the clothing optional beaches, are generally not legal but but unenforced. This, of course, puts their very existence at the whim of any public official. A story regarding the closing of what was once a CO beach can be found,here:http://www.wwaytv3.com/no_birthday_suits_just_bathing_suits_bird_island/04/2009 Hey Art,The Bird Island link is no good. Will you pleae try to repost it? Thanks! Jen Hey, this time it wasn't my fault. Honest. Must be a defect in that paste thing. Have corrected in original post and posted below. Will try to get in the habit of checking the links after posting.http://www.wwaytv3.com/no_birthday_suits_just_bathing_suits_bird_island/04/2009
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macnudeOriginal Poster
Feb 9, 2010
Here’s a comment from one who supports the nudity ban on Bird Island. “When the nudists start looking more like Julia Roberts and less like the late Rodney Dangerfield, I'll fully support the right to prance about naked on the beach.” Would anyone like to take a stab at repyling to this one?http://www.wwaytv3.com/no_birthday_suits_just_bathing_suits_bird_island/04/2009
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blueiron35
Feb 9, 2010
[url=http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0556850/][color=#3165c6]Paula McFadden[/color][/url]: I thought you said you were decent.[url=http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000377/][color=#3165c6]Elliot Garfield[/color][/url]: I am decent. I also happen to be naked. I like that, funny stuff.
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macnudeOriginal Poster
Feb 12, 2010
"It's like smoking. You have a right to lie out nude, but you don't have a right to make me wish I was blind." Yet another comment from one who opposes clothing optional beaches. Being nude is like smoking. Hmm. With arguments like this, what chance do we have for a C/O beach?http://www.wwaytv3.com/no_birthday_suits_just_bathing_suits_bird_island/04/2009
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macnudeOriginal Poster
Feb 13, 2010
[quote]Actually I think our lawmakers are more inclined to enjoy the typical textile beach experience:[/quote] Can't agree more. Besides, it's easier to arrest a well behaved nudist. No strip search required and the possibility of a concealed weapon very remote.
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catbird
Feb 13, 2010
I just joined that group.
That is a reason to be a member of AANR and TNS. Both have a lobbying department. They have more clout than people in a group of True Nudists. Those organizations tend to know about each potential legislative action that threatens our right to have nude recreation.
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Cheri Donna Dawson
Feb 13, 2010
[quote]I just joined that group. That is a reason to be a member of AANR and TNS. Both have a lobbying department. They have more clout than people in a group of True Nudists. Those organizations tend to know about each potential legislative action that threatens our right to have nude recreation.[/quote] They each subscribe to an alert system, but they do need help from members to actually watch bills. Occasionally one slips through as it has in South Carolina for a few years. Every bill that is introduced or moves or is heard in my state, I read. My husband says I probably know more what's going on in the legislature than the politicians. LOL
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macnudeOriginal Poster
Feb 14, 2010
[quote]I just joined that group. That is a reason to be a member of AANR and TNS. Both have a lobbying department. They have more clout than people in a group of True Nudists. Those organizations tend to know about each potential legislative action that threatens our right to have nude recreation.[/quote] Catbird, No one would deny the existance of the national organizations or the good they can do for the nudists cause. Any effort taken here on TN would be designed not to replace but to supplement their efforts. Those organizations were not at my side last summer when I did two TV interviews and was quoted in the newspaper, by name, advocating the establishment of clothing optional beaches. here in the Carolinas. Think of this as a war of attrition in which we must wear down opposition to clothing optional beaches, community by community, county by county and state by state. Imagine if one letter from a TN member struck the right chord with a local newspaper editor and resulted with the opening of just one clothing optional beach. Imagine if a letter from a Tn member to the editor of “National Geographic Magazine “ inspired a feature story entitiled “ Nudism In America”. Imagine if a letter from a TN member caused nationwide coverage of the “Record Skinny Dip” in Time and Newsweek magizines. Are we powerless, no, I don’t think so. NUDISTS WHO WANT ANTI-NUDISM LAWS CHANGED OR OVERTURNED./http://www.truenudists.com/group/1296/
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macnudeOriginal Poster
Feb 15, 2010
Gerry 4, We seem to be very much in agreement regarding some of the problems that nudists face today. The survival of nudism will depend on future generations trying the life, finding they enjoy it and go on to be lifetime nudists. Several years ago I was in the position of recruiting new members for our Vererans of Foreign Wars post. WWII vets were eager to sign on as were the Korean War vets. Viet Nam vets were lukewarm but the Gulf War vets were reluctant to join, even when offered free membership. My conclusion was that the younger people were simply NOT JOINERS. This does not bode well for the established nudist clubs. I don’t think that the younger people have any problem with nudity or even the rather nominal expence of visiting a nudist club. If C/O beaches were readily available, I think it’s likely that if some one in their group suggested a “skinny dip” they would be inclined to pile into a car or van and head for the beach. I agree that we must claim our spot on the beaches. I would not ask that any nudist risk arrest to achieve this. Furthermore, any act of civil disobedience should be undertaken with much forethought to assure that, in the long term, these acts are in our best interest. I’m sure that some are growing weary of my continued emphasis upon media involvment. The media is generally more liberal than the public at large, very zealous of protection of their own 1st Amendment rights (US Constitution) and THEY REACH THE MASSES. While there are existing national organizations dedicated to preserving the nudist life I urge all TN members to join NUDISTS WHO WANT ANTI-NUDISM LAWS CHANGED OR OVERTURNED./http://www.truenudists.com/group/1296/div /div and become active in pressuring lawmakers toward more realistic laws.
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Gerry-4
Feb 15, 2010
[quote] My conclusion was that the younger people were simply NOT JOINERS. This does not bode well for the established nudist clubs.[/quote] Reply: Nudist centres need money and other types of investment to become a reality. I think we need something more down-to-earth and affordable. [quote] If C/O beaches were readily available, I think it’s likely that if someone in their group suggested a “skinny dip” they would be inclined to pile into a car or van and head for the beach.[/quote] Reply: I agree. But the problem is clothing optional beaches are often very hard to find. And as long as we don’t make a concerted effort to claim such spaces, they will continue to not exist. [quote] I agree that we must claim our spot on the beaches. I would not ask that any nudist risk arrest to achieve this.[/quote] Reply: I’m not saying we should risk arrest either. I’m just saying that as long as we can’t drum up the numbers, we’ll continue to be easy to dismiss by those who would rather keep everything textile. [quote] The media is generally more liberal than the public at large, very zealous of protection of their own 1st Amendment rights (US Constitution) and THEY REACH THE MASSES.[/quote] Reply: I’ve worked in media. I can’t speak for those in the U.S., but in Canada they’re only as liberal as their publisher or station manager, and not all publishers are liberal. In some cases, even a liberal publisher or station manager can’t convince a shy or prudish journalist to look us up. If we really want to reach the young, we need Facebook, MSN, MySpace and similar types of media, as well as True Nudists and other sites, including blogs. We have to become prominent on Google. How do we do this without looking like porn? I’ll be honest enough to say I don’t know. It’s so easy to have things misinterpreted and for trolls to hijack legitimate attempts at reaching out.
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blueiron35
Feb 16, 2010
Im not sure my response would be polite enough for the forum.
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macnudeOriginal Poster
Feb 17, 2010
I was one of the “Happy and Complacent” nudists for almost a half century, seeking out legal places to enjoy the nudist life, even traveling outside the Country. Last year, found an isolated beach, nearby, which was traditionally clothing optional. After spending one very enjoyable day there, sunbathing and splashing in the ocean, I found that the County Board had issued an order directing the police to enforce North Carolina’s anti-nudity laws. I realized that to preserve the nudist life, as I knew it, it would be necessary for nudists to step forward and speak out. It has been stated that there are national organizations whose very purpose is to speak out for the nudists. I replied that, "they were nowhere in evidence, last summer, when I granted two TV interviews advocating the establishment of more C/O beaches.” Just yesterday I had e-mailed comments advocating clothing optional beaches to two local newspapers. I went back today and found twelve responses my post, at one site. This in a discussion group which had been idle for almost a year. I will continue to seek out these forums, constantly questioning the advisability and even the legality of of closing existing clothing optional beaches. I urge others to do the same. Those wishing to comment on that Forum will find it below. Registration will be necessary and may take several days.http://forums.starnewsonline.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8841089365/m/1971046368/p/3I
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macnudeOriginal Poster
Feb 18, 2010
[quote]Just joined. One of my all time favorite movie quotes sums it up quite nicely:Paula McFadden: I thought you said you were decent.Elliot Garfield: I am decent. I also happen to be naked. [/quote] Does memory serve me correctly? Quote fromThe Goodbye Girl?
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Cheri Donna Dawson
Feb 18, 2010
MacNude, It seems many of the posts are no longer there that were positive statements about nudism.
Cheri
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