Reluctant to Sign the Clothing Optional Access Petition?

nuderunrOriginal Poster

Jan 18, 2014

The petition asking policy makers to designate more federally-owned wilderness areas, forests and beaches for clothing optional access has been posted at WH.gov for several days now. At last check the petition has 330 signatures. I personally am acquainted with several hundred nudists and naturists. There is somewhere in the neighborhood of 30,000 AANR members and some 20,000+ members of TNS. The point is, it's an obvious conclusion to arrive at that there are lots and lots of nudists and naturists who are now aware of the petition but for different reasons haven't signed it.

I decided to start this thread to discuss some concerns some have shared with me for why they feel reluctant to sign the petition. Frankly, if any of the same reasons apply to you I hope to change your mind. But regardless, I will respect your decision either way. To hopefully keep things interesting I'll discuss a new objection each day until I run out of topics or until the window closes on the petition on February 12. If you have a concern that isn't addressed please feel free to post it and I'll do my best to address it. What I really hope to do beyond giving people a reason to sign the petition is to eliminate some of the concerns people have that keep them from signing. Here is the first concern to get things started.

I haven't signed because neither AANR or TNS is officially supporting the petition.

It is true that neither of the national organizations have lent official support to this initiative but that shouldn't be surprising for a couple of reasons. First, this has been by intention from the start a grassroots effort where the narrative is driven by individuals like you and me speaking in a collective voice asking for positive change. Neither AANR or TNS was asked for support before the decision was made to go forward with this effort. Certainly if either or both should decide at some point to officially put their official weight behind the initiative they would be more than welcome to do so. But even if that should happen, individuals not organizations are going to continue driving the narrative.

One of the most important responsibilities of AANR and TNS is representing and protecting nudist and naturists rights from the government. Personally, I believe both organizations do a much better job of that than many rank and file nudists and naturists give them credit for. But they have their own protocols, strategies and operating procedures. They look at things from a national macro view rather than the micro view that I have as an individual nudist at the local level. Whether everyone might agree with it, I think it is fair to say that both national organizations do their best to avoid controversy by following a don't rock the boat, don't get anybody mad at us philosophy. Quite obviously petitioning the Obama administration to designate portions of federally-managed park lands, forested back country and national seashores for clothing optional access could be considered a bit confrontational. It might rock a few boats and might make a few people angry who aren't supporters of nude recreation. So you should be able to see that it might not be such an easy decision on the part of the national organizations to lend support to this initiative.

Also, not to be critical of either organization, but no one wants a deck chair aboard the Titanic. From my perspective as an individual I'm not really risking much by backing this petition. If it fails I don't really stand to lose anything. If the petition is successful I might actually gain more freedom to enjoy my lifestyle. If it fails I am not going to be any worse off. So why not take the chance? But from the perspective of AANR and TNS, they may be unwilling to risk at this point buying into this sort of effort because they worry that if it tanks it may hurt their credibility and lower their prestige. I have no doubt they will wait to see whether this effort gains any real traction before they will decide to support it officially, if they ever do. I'll be frank here and tell you that AANR and TNS do not believe that any significant number of nudists and naturists will sign a petition for change. I've actually had people tell me as much. They don't think we will as individuals stand up and act collectively for the common good which is one reason they don't use petitions as a strategy. I would wager that they are likely surprised to see even 300 plus have signed the petition so far. Well, here is your chance to prove them wrong. A chance to say I'm tired of being ridiculed, slandered, demonized and criticized by the prudish majority because I enjoy going nude while pursuing normal, everyday outdoor recreational activities.

In the final analysis, every person has to decide for himself or herself how important it is to them whether AANR and TNS supports this effort in order for them to feel comfortable signing the petition. Maybe it is just time that we all stood up for ourselves and did something as individuals that might give us a little more freedom to live in a way that we find meaningful and enjoyable. This petition is about far more than an attempt to gain a little more clothing optional access, it is about normalizing nude. Nudism is never going to go mainstream until that happens. It doesn't ask much from a person to sign a petition about something that they should care about and that affects them. A petition is what activists call an "easy lift" -- with just a little bit of effort, you can generate attention and momentum around an issue, grow a community of advocates and pressure policy makers to act. An initiative like this can help raise the visibility of this culture and potentially we could gain new members. Isn't that worth just a few minutes of your time?

Please consider standing with the 330 nudists and naturists that have already done their part. Please go to the website and sign the petition ---->http://wh.gov/lIUyG

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Bill Bowser
Jan 18, 2014
I think the national organizations ought to be ashamed of themselves for not backing this effort. Instead of ignoring it lest their reputations suffer if it fails, they ought to be backing it in every way possible in order for it to succeed. I often criticize nudists who hide their identities and never reveal that they participate in nude recreation, because it is detrimental to our culture. With the approach AANR and TNS are taking to this petition drive they are doing exactly the same thing. They don't want to admit any association with those crazy naked people who had the nerve to post a petition on the whitehouse.gov website. The term paper tiger comes to mind.
Since when does petitioning the government threaten or jeopardize your reputation? These organizations which receive a great deal of money through our dues seem pretty impotent when it comes to obtaining, or even just preserving, public lands for nude recreation, but they have lots of great conventions. And now it would seem that they want to divorce themselves from those of us who are willing to try to make things better for all nudists. Maybe while we're gathering signatures for this petition we ought to be signing up members in a new organization. It seems to me that there are many potential paths to more acceptance of our lifestyle and none should be ignored. This petition has the potential to lead to more public lands being designated for nude recreational activities. How could any organization that claims to be an advocate of social nudism decide that it is not worthy of support? Neither organization even had the courtesy to reply to my email when I asked them to support this issue. That shows how much attention the pay to their members' concerns. What a revoltin development this is. (That is a line that was often used in 1950s TV program "the Life of Riley" by its star William Bendix. Most of you folks may be too young to have heard it before.)
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Bill Bowser
Jan 18, 2014
Click on the link at the bottom of the first post above.
Or you can go topetitions.whitehouse.govclick onView Petitionsand scroll down to find it listed among about 19 others.
Don't be too easily discouraged. This is important. Please try again.
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macnude
Jan 18, 2014
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/designate-portions-public-lands-under-management-federal-government-clothing-optional-recreational/15TLkVMJYou can click and sign the link above. The alternative is to sit on your bare butt and wait for the national organizations to save the last few clothing optional areas. Good luck with that!!!!
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outothebakyrd
Jan 18, 2014
Signature #358 here. This would be a great thing. Also shared on Facebook. YAHOO!!!!!
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nuderunrOriginal Poster
Jan 19, 2014
[quote]can't sign it if you can't find it !!!!
[/quote]Here is the link -->http://wh.gov/lIUyGor you can always just go to the websitehttps://petitions.whitehouse.gov/and click on the "Open Petitions" tab at the top of the page.
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nuderunrOriginal Poster
Jan 19, 2014
[quote]More Free beaches/areas will hurt established nudist resorts where members are screened.
Remember anything you get free is worth what you pay for it.
[/quote]That isn't actually true. Nudist landed clubs and resorts have always been and will always be important to our culture. I'm actually addressing a very similar point in today's post but suffice to say there are many nudists who prefer clubs over clothing optional beaches and areas for obvious reasons. Clubs and resorts have rules, etiquette, screening, etc. which give many people peace of mind because they know they won't have to deal with voyeurs, predators and those who engage in lewd behavior. Also, there are many folks like me. There are no national parks, national forests or beaches near Dallas. Local landed clubs are always my only option for nude outdoor recreation except when I am traveling. The same is true for many others. Those who live near clothing optional beaches and prefer them over clubs already spend the majority of their time there so there is no impact on clubs and resorts. One last thing -- not everyone, especially young adults can afford the fees and costs of visiting landed clubs and resorts. It isn't just day fees. Most clubs only allow a few visits before people are expected to join and pay membership dues. Should those folks be excluded from our lifestyle because they can't afford it? They need and deserve lower-cost places to enjoy outdoor recreation too. Thank you for bringing up the concern. I appreciate it.

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nuderunrOriginal Poster
Jan 19, 2014
[quote]I think the national organizations ought to be ashamed of themselves for not backing this effort. Instead of ignoring it lest their reputations suffer if it fails, they ought to be backing it in every way possible in order for it to succeed. I often criticize nudists who hide their identities and never reveal that they participate in nude recreation, because it is detrimental to our culture. With the approach AANR and TNS are taking to this petition drive they are doing exactly the same thing. They don't want to admit any association with those crazy naked people who had the nerve to post a petition on the whitehouse.gov website. The term paper tiger comes to mind.
Since when does petitioning the government threaten or jeopardize your reputation? These organizations which receive a great deal of money through our dues seem pretty impotent when it comes to obtaining, or even just preserving, public lands for nude recreation, but they have lots of great conventions. And now it would seem that they want to divorce themselves from those of us who are willing to try to make things better for all nudists. Maybe while we're gathering signatures for this petition we ought to be signing up members in a new organization. It seems to me that there are many potential paths to more acceptance of our lifestyle and none should be ignored. This petition has the potential to lead to more public lands being designated for nude recreational activities. How could any organization that claims to be an advocate of social nudism decide that it is not worthy of support? Neither organization even had the courtesy to reply to my email when I asked them to support this issue. That shows how much attention the pay to their members' concerns. What a revoltin development this is. (That is a line that was often used in 1950s TV program "the Life of Riley" by its star William Bendix. Most of you folks may be too young to have heard it before.)[/quote]Thank you for bringing up this point. I have been getting so many emails about this I have addressed it with an open memo to all supporters which you can find at the communications hub page at the petition website:http://clothing-optional-access.weebly.com/communications-hub.html. The memo briefly explains our position on this issue and it also provides resources for those who feel strongly that AANR and TNS support is needed. It provides the names and email addresses of decision makers at both national organizations.

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ME
Member
Jan 19, 2014
We knew nothing about this. Thanks for letting everyone know, we signed!
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outothebakyrd
Jan 19, 2014
As of this A.M. count was 384. Posted link on my facebook page hope to get more involved
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Cheri Donna Dawson
Jan 19, 2014
[quote]More Free beaches/areas will hurt established nudist resorts where members are screened.
Remember anything you get free is worth what you pay for it.
[/quote]Tom, Even Jim Hadley was a supporter of free beaches. People have to start some where; beaches and/or non-landed clubs are a start. Not everyone can afford to visit a resort let alone a nudist park.
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DesertRat
Jan 19, 2014
When I was younger nude beaches and back country hiking were a great experience. Now that I'm older I don't hike and getting to the beach usually involves too much physical effort. (We frequented California's Blacks Beach and that 300 ft cliff climb was pretty rough going down let alone coming back up, so we haven't done that in quite a while.)

Signing the petition was not about me getting more privileges on public lands. It was more about getting nudism recognized as a wholesome life style. Nudism is an issue that needs to be addressed more by the general public and this is one way of doing that. This will help people to realize that we're out there and we also have rights.
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macnude
Jan 19, 2014
[quote]When I was younger nude beaches and back country hiking were a great experience. Now that I'm older I don't hike and getting to the beach usually involves too much physical effort. (We frequented California's Blacks Beach and that 300 ft cliff climb was pretty rough going down let alone coming back up, so we haven't done that in quite a while.)

Signing the petition was not about me getting more privileges on public lands. It was more about getting nudism recognized as a wholesome life style. Nudism is an issue that needs to be addressed more by the general public and this is one way of doing that. This will help people to realize that we're out there and we also have rights.[/quote]Well said!
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nuderunrOriginal Poster
Jan 20, 2014
I agree with what the petition asks for but I am just not comfortable giving out the personal information required to create an account at White House.gov so that I can sign it.

This is a tricky one and I can emphasize with people that feel this way. You are required to create an account before you can sign the petition and that requires entering your name and an email address. The website also asks for your zip code although I've heard from several people who have confirmed it will allow you to create an account and sign even if you leave the zip code field blank.

After all the recent revelations people really have lost trust in our government. Many no longer believe the government is looking out for them and in my opinion they are right. It is really sad that people are so distrustful of the government that they don't even want to provide any personal data to create an account on a government website. If you really feel strongly about it as a privacy issue, I respect that and wouldn't try to talk you into doing something you aren't comfortable with.

But it has to be said, that living in this post-Edward Snowden world, we are all going to have to accept a new paradigm. Privacy as we once knew it, pre-9/11 privacy concepts no longer exists and will never exist again. Snowden revealed that the government routinely harvests and stores vast amounts of personal data from the Internet on every person in this country. There is actually plenty of proof that supports the veracity of his claims. There is an interesting article that explains it pretty well at this link:

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/09/18863448-lawmakers-americans-dont-know-how-carefully-the-government-is-watching

The bottom line is the government already knows everything they want to know about every one of us. If you have ever registered on any website, including this one, the government already has your information. Yes, many people as I do have regular email accounts that we use for work or to email our friends and then we have alias email accounts that we use for things like registering on websites. We also often use alias monikers for usernames.

Still, most of us when we do ordinary things like placing an order at Amazon or emailing our cousin in South Florida, use our authentic information. Every computer has a unique identifier. So no matter how many aliases a person uses, if you have every used your real information on the same computer that you have used alias accounts and identities on, you can believe that has all been collated and somewhere, someone has all that information connected. Chances are they also know every website you have ever visited no matter what username or email you used to sign on to the Internet or to register at a website.

All this data massive data collection has been going on for at least the past five years we're told. The intent the government tells us is to keep us safe. Actually I am not a conspiracy theorist and so for now at least I'm willing to give the government the benefit of the doubt. I haven't yet heard how any data collected has been used to inappropriately target any innocent person. Unless information comes to light that indicates the data collected is being abused, I'm willing to accept that the government is using it responsibly.

It isn't against any law to be nudist or naturist or to favor something like this petition. Laws regulate conduct not thoughts, beliefs or in most cases speech. So the truth is, by creating an account to sign the petition you aren't giving out any information the government doesn't already have. The only way you could have any real privacy these days with respect to big brother is if you decided to go completely off the grid. That means no computer, no cell phone, no credit cards, no job where you get a paycheck and have withholding taken out, no purchasing any train or airline tickets, no utilities accounts, no drivers license, no bank accounts, no nothing. It just isn't possible anymore to fly under the radar so to speak unless you are willing to go to some pretty extreme lengths. It's sad but true. Something was taken from us on 9/11 that we will never get back.

But in the final analysis, if you feel strongly about not giving up the information to create the account necessary to sign the petition then that is your decision and I'll respect it. But you really should understand that privacy is no longer a factual expectation but merely an illusion and that isn't ever going to change.

If you were willing to go to a lot of extra trouble, you could go to the public library and use a computer there to create a burn email account under an alias, create your account at White House.gov and then sign the petition. Depending on how the library administers computer use, there might not be any electronic bread crumbs leading back to you that way. But of course as mentioned that would be a lot of trouble to go through just to spend three minutes to sign a petition. It basically just comes down to whether this issue is important to you or it's not.

For those willing to create an account at the site, please help make a difference by joining with those who have already signed the petition.

-->http://wh.gov/lIUyG

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nuderunrOriginal Poster
Jan 21, 2014
We have had petitions like this before and they never get enough signatures to accomplish anything. I think signing these petitions is just a waste of time.

Candidly there is some truth to the above statement. I've heard these sentiments expressed by several folks, if in slightly different words. I wasn't aware of it but someone told me the other day that they signed a similar petition to this one posted at "We the People" website this past summer and that it didn't even manage to meet the 150 signature threshold. I checked into it and while the petition is closed and no longer available for viewing I did find the title of it on an Internet search and it was evidently about something quite similar. All I can say is that is a situation that as a community, we nudists should be ashamed of if the petitioners made a reasonable attempt to get the word out about that previous petition and no one bothered to sign it.

The fact is there is a good deal of apathy among nudists and the reason for it is that most people believe it's too difficult to have an impact and/or they dont believe they personally can make a difference. It is just easier to take the path of least resistance, throw up our hands and quit without even trying and then to blame the national organizations for not doing enough when our rights to enjoy our lifestyle continue to shrink.

An online petition drive is about the easiest way imaginable for individual nudists to get involved in activism and to try and make things better. All it requires is the willingness to spend a few minutes to create an account and sign. No one is asking you for financial support, asking you to show up for a rally in front of the White House or asking you to commit an act of civil obedience that might land you in jail. Just a few minutes of your time is all that is requested.

Petitions alone rarely accomplish everything a community like ours might be asking policy makers for, but a petition drive often can motivate more people than ever before to start speaking up and taking action. And that's a good thing. Any hardcore activist will tell you that their first action isn't something like storming the White House. Usually they start a movement with something simple that gets some positive feedback and then take it to a higher level.

If we want a more engaged nudist community, we need to make it easy for as many individual nudists as possible to feel the joy of those first simple steps and an online petition is one way to accomplish that. If you make activism relatively painless, people will do more of it. If you make it painful, they'll do less.

It's easy to rationalize not signing a petition by saying it isn't going to accomplish anything anyway. But none of us can foresee the future so that really isn't a justifiable assumption. Maybe we will get the 100,000 signatures and maybe we won't. But it is a lead pipe cinch we won't if too many people don't bother signing because they assume it won't do any good.

I'll leave you with a quote from Margaret Mead, "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." Think about that.

Try to make a difference by signing the petitionhttp://wh.gov/lIUyG

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ME
Member
Jan 21, 2014
signed
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macnude
Jan 22, 2014
I sent to following e-mail to our local radio, TV and newspaper under the subjectNudists petition the White House. Will it do any good? I don't know, however, if everyone reading this thread did the same in their area, there is the chance that it would catch the right persons attention and give us the exposure (no pun intended) which we need. "Nudists across the Nation are petitioning the White House for greater access to Federal lands and beaches. For additional information, please click this link."https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/designate-portions-public-lands-under-management-federal-government-clothing-optional-recreational/15TLkVMJP.S. Below is the link to the article which was published due to my efforts to promote The Record Skinny Dip. Individual effort can make a difference.http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2010/07/08/1574518/cover-story.html

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ME
Member
Jan 30, 2014
I signed it. Privacy? Pffft! Doesn't matter, they'll find out who I am anyway, if they want to bad enough. What are they gonna do? send a drone after me? Armed USAF drone versus naked man hiking. I can see that exchange happening!
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ravensflyinnow
Apr 24, 2014
[quote]Needed a bump.[/quote]It doesn't need a bump...time ran out......the petition is dead
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Mark Speir
Jul 10, 2014
I wouldn't sign it for one reason: It would force our ideals on others that do not share in those ideals.

There are a great many people that are very uncomfortable with nudity. Forcing nudity on them is akin to an assault. Federal lands and National Parks are open to everyone and shouldn't place ANYONE in a situation where they would feel uncomfortable or even threatened. It would cause the use of the lands to drop drastically and that is not good. It would give nudism a black eye and nudism is already viewed in a very negative light in this country.

Not to mention that no politician in their right mind would support this. And I do not blame them!

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ravensflyinnow
Jul 11, 2014
[quote]I wouldn't sign it for one reason: It would force our ideals on others that do not share in those ideals.

There are a great many people that are very uncomfortable with nudity. Forcing nudity on them is akin to an assault. Federal lands and National Parks are open to everyone and shouldn't place ANYONE in a situation where they would feel uncomfortable or even threatened. It would cause the use of the lands to drop drastically and that is not good. It would give nudism a black eye and nudism is already viewed in a very negative light in this country.

Not to mention that no politician in their right mind would support this. And I do not blame them!

[/quote]Are not textiles ideals forced on us? Federal lands and Parks are for everyone to enjoy. You said it! Should nudists not enjoy it as much as someone clothed? The idea was to set aside small areas of federal land to be used as clothing optional. In national forests now, this exists. Areas are sign posted, "you may encounter nudes in this area". Then it becomes that the explorer has 2 options. Continue along and not be offended, or perhaps avoid that small area all together. Nudists and the textiles can get along, as long as everyone behaves.
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Bob
Jul 21, 2014
But we are dealing with people that need to be told that peanut butter is made with peanuts, that hot coffee is hot and feeding bears is dangerous.
Bob

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sunnmaxx
Jul 26, 2014
No problem signing it but would also like to start one at AANR
& TNS for not backing it
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Jonathan
Sep 7, 2014
I just came across this thread, but there doesn't seem to be an active petition. I have even tried searching for it. Anyone know what happened to it. Was it taken down, or closed?
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Jonathan
Sep 7, 2014
I just noticed that. It seems that there are a few different threads on these forums about doing a petition of this nature. The problem is that not enough people know about it before the time expires. If someone would be interested in starting a new petition, we really need to get the word out ahead of time. I'm sure we have more than enough people out there that would sign. They just need to know about it first.
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