Troubling nudity trend in Germany

Replies

• ME

  Member

  Apr 25, 2017

  Facebook is falling into line with the right wing christian churches (which I believe are anything BUT christian) and the US love of litigation. It has become a VERY sick society. Yet there are many wonderful American and I have many friends from that country.

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• PA

  

  Paul

  Apr 25, 2017

  [quote]Facebook is falling into line with the right wing christian churches (which I believe are anything BUT christian) and the US love of litigation. It has become a VERY sick society. Yet there are many wonderful American and I have many friends from that country.[/quote] I've got news for you- It isn't the right wing or churches causing the decline, nor the growing disdain among the young people about innocent nudity. It's media and television. First of all, on US television, it is now perfectly acceptable to show the most gruesome bloody murders, sexual acts, body dismembering, splattering of brains, you name it- all during prime time. However, there are great penalties for a single nipple to be shown. This is further enforced in young minds by parents that over-react to even the slightest nudity in print or television. As for our lawmakers, it has been the LEFT that has passed anti-nudity laws, not the right. Here in California, the left (mostly democrats) have voted down our traditionally nudist areas like the American River. The right hasn't squelched the innocent nudity, it is the LEFT. The most left of the left coast in San Francisco banned nudity last year, it wasn't the right. The most liberal of liberal universitys, UC Berkeley has banned nudity. Right wingers don't care, but the left seems to be on a crusade to ban all nudity, even innocent. The far-right doesn't care about nudity, as long as nobody is harmed. That's the facts.

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• PA

  

  Paul

  Apr 25, 2017

  Oh, and while we're at it.... Some churches have no problem with innocent nudity. For example, the Baptists (the real ones, not the ones from San Francisco or L.A.), the 7th Day Adventists (you can even be baptized nude if you wish, that's how Jesus was baptized).

  Seems like the Godless liberals are more against nudity than the right wing churches.

  Catholics don't count as right-wing anymore. The catholics went off the rails years ago and doesn't look like they will ever recover. The Episcopalians and the Methodists are in even worse shape.

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• FU

  

  FullSun

  Apr 25, 2017

  In my experience it is the right wing conservatives that I know that are more uptight about nudity and what is acceptable and want to tell society what they should and should not do while those that I know with more moderate to left are the ones that have no issue unless it hurts someone.

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• MU

  

  mudist

  Apr 25, 2017

  Forget Facebook, forget the church, forget to divide the world into "left" and "right"... in my opinion there are other reasons why a single person wants to follow a trend/lifestyle or not: gender - age - cultural background.

  And please believe me whatever you may think of us: the majority of Germans do not go naked to work ;-)

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• ME

  Member

  Apr 26, 2017

  Maybe because we have such a big beach culture in Australia, the young people are wearing less and less on the beach and walking the streets. Thank god we are not following every American trend.

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• ME

  Member

  Apr 26, 2017

  I think another issue is the immigration of large numbers of Muslims, and the German government's attempts to keep them from being offended by nudity. There is a resort lake, I believe, where an immigrant center was built, and the nudists who have used the lake nude for over 100 years were told to cover up to avoid offending the immigrants. This is happening in other parts of the EU as well, and could be contributing to the uprising against immigrants and movements to elect more nationalist, anti-immigrant and anti EU leaders. Not sure how that will turn out.

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• NA

  NatureBoy24

  Apr 27, 2017

  I think it is more complicated than left vs right - in the USA.

  In Europe, I think the decline is very much tied to Muslim immigration. The governments in Europe seem bent on accommodating and not offending the migrants - at the expense of their own citizens & culture. Islam has very clear and strong teachings against nudity, so the incoming people both have that culture and push that culture on others. And now it's reached the point where Muslims are holding positions of political power and influence. Bye bye traditional nudity.

  In the USA the "right" ("conservative" "Christians") have a strong bent against sexual immorality, and nudity = sex, so nudity is bad. From the "left" there is a strong desire to "protect" and not "offend", and nudity (especially male nudity) is seen a sexually aggressive and that is something we just can't have. Yes, the "right" has a libertarian - let people do what they want - wing, and the "left" has a nature & Gaia and tolerate people who are different wing. But those wings aren't nearly as strong & influential as the the power grabbing, controlling wings.

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• PA

  

  Paul

  Apr 28, 2017

  [quote] It the right that banned nudity and even the idea of nudism in the entire state of Arkansas. It the techies in SF, who are right wingers that destroyed nudity in SF. It's perverts at the American River that's killing nudity there. Educate yourself, it's lacking.[/quote] You are mistaken on all points. I am very active in the push to reopen the American River area, and have attended meetings with the state lawmakers and have lunched with lobbyists. Twenty bucks says I know a lot more about the issue than you. I attended the meetings to speak against the blanket nudity ban in San Francisco. Were you there? I met the city council members who voted for that ban, have you? I happen to know they are all liberals, how did you come to the erroneous conclusion that they are conservatives? You claim that techies in SF are right-wingers. How is that so? The vast majority support and embrace leftist causes and those who are registered to vote almost exclusively supported Clinton in 2016, according to every San Francisco Chronicle poll ever conducted.. It appears it is YOU who needs to get educated. I am a life-long nudist, Libertarian, and recently became a naturism activist. I find your assumption that this new wave of anti-naturism comes from the left quite offensive to our cause. Before you can win a battle, you first must identify who your opponent is. For this latest round of battles, our opponents have been exclusively from the left. Your education has begun.

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• CO

  

  Conrad

  Jan 5, 2018

  Could not agree more, just a matter of time before the nude beaches, lakes and mixed gender sauna's (In Germany also FKK) will slowly disappear. In The Netherlands at some beaches girls/ women do not go topless anymore!! [quote]I think it is more complicated than left vs right - in the USA. In Europe, I think the decline is very much tied to Muslim immigration. The governments in Europe seem bent on accommodating and not offending the migrants - at the expense of their own citizens & culture. Islam has very clear and strong teachings against nudity, so the incoming people both have that culture and push that culture on others. And now it's reached the point where Muslims are holding positions of political power and influence. Bye bye traditional nudity. In the USA the "right" ("conservative" "Christians") have a strong bent against sexual immorality, and nudity = sex, so nudity is bad. From the "left" there is a strong desire to "protect" and not "offend", and nudity (especially male nudity) is seen a sexually aggressive and that is something we just can't have. Yes, the "right" has a libertarian - let people do what they want - wing, and the "left" has a nature & Gaia and tolerate people who are different wing. But those wings aren't nearly as strong & influential as the the power grabbing, controlling wings.[/quote]

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• MB

  

  mb

  Jan 5, 2018

  I've not noticed it decreasing anyway in particular. Paris had a Nude Park at the end of this summer. London had a naked restaurant (The Bunyadi) that will hopefully return soon. My friends in Berlin say that being naked in public parks is still common. I think general interest is much the same as it always has been.

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• SA

  

  Stone Andy

  Jan 8, 2018

  Social media is a problem in today's world. Be spontaneous and it's recorded for eternity for the whole world to see with filters, etc. perhaps but it leaves people feeling exposed and vulnerable. At some point people will learn to live with it enough to set up healthy boundaries and safe zones but for now it's the wild world wide west.

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• FL

  

  flsmoothie

  Jan 29, 2018

  [quote]I think it is more complicated than left vs right - in the USA. In Europe, I think the decline is very much tied to Muslim immigration. The governments in Europe seem bent on accommodating and not offending the migrants - at the expense of their own citizens & culture. Islam has very clear and strong teachings against nudity, so the incoming people both have that culture and push that culture on others. And now it's reached the point where Muslims are holding positions of political power and influence. Bye bye traditional nudity. In the USA the "right" ("conservative" "Christians") have a strong bent against sexual immorality, and nudity = sex, so nudity is bad. From the "left" there is a strong desire to "protect" and not "offend", and nudity (especially male nudity) is seen a sexually aggressive and that is something we just can't have. Yes, the "right" has a libertarian - let people do what they want - wing, and the "left" has a nature & Gaia and tolerate people who are different wing. But those wings aren't nearly as strong & influential as the the power grabbing, controlling wings.[/quote] You made a lot of good points. Overall, think you pretty much hit the nail on the head.

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• NG

  

  Naked guy next door!

  Dec 28, 2019

  [quote]I think it is more complicated than left vs right - in the USA.In Europe, I think the decline is very much tied to Muslim immigration. The governments in Europe seem bent on accommodating and not offending the migrants - at the expense of their own citizens & culture. Islam has very clear and strong teachings against nudity, so the incoming people both have that culture and push that culture on others. And now it's reached the point where Muslims are holding positions of political power and influence. Bye bye traditional nudity.In the USA the "right" ("conservative" "Christians") have a strong bent against sexual immorality, and nudity = sex, so nudity is bad. From the "left" there is a strong desire to "protect" and not "offend", and nudity (especially male nudity) is seen a sexually aggressive and that is something we just can't have. Yes, the "right" has a libertarian - let people do what they want - wing, and the "left" has a nature & Gaia and tolerate people who are different wing. But those wings aren't nearly as strong & influential as the the power grabbing, controlling wings.[/quote]
  
  This sounds accurate to me. I am not in Germany and I can't speak to the Muslim comments as it hasn't been my experience. I do see the trend in the United States becoming more and more conservative toward nudity. I will say that as far as the comment about Muslims, I go to a Russian sauna where I see Muslims nude every week. They wear bathing suits in the sauna where most everyone else is nude, but they change and shower nude with all the other nude men. I have talked with them about their views on nudity and they are not offended that we are nude in their presence. They just choose to be discreet with their own level of exposure. They grew up in American culture, they just observe their own more reserved customs around nudity. I agree that there are views and actions on all parts of the political spectrum that probably influence some social views of nudity. I do think there is a stronger conservative influence to suppress and control nudity than there is any liberal influence to ban it. But liberals don't promote it enough either. I have seen, in my lifetime, the United States conservatives, sometimes in the name of returning America to some imagined idealized time that never actually existed, react with intolerance toward nudity. It was during the conservative "Reagan Revolution" in the 1980s that schools closed group showers. Those same years private gyms and health clubs removed jacuzzis and saunas from locker rooms and the towel dance became the norm among young men in locker rooms. I have always assumed it was in reaction to what was and is still labeled as the too free and easy lifestyles promoted during the "radical 1960s" and "liberal 1970's" counter cultures. They were going to bring back conservative ideals to the masses. Then, after the liberals in (Bernie Sanders's and Patrick Leahy's) Vermont made nudity legal throughout that state, it has been the conservatives who year after year threaten to pass new laws to ban nudity. They are always claiming it promotes a sense of immorality. They have succeeded in some communities by passing local anti-nudity ordinances where none ever existed before the public nudity laws were enacted. Nothing is ever a one way street and no one group is completely responsible. I just hope Germany and the United States eventually move back toward openness and tolerance and away from banning and tightening down on social behavior.

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• NU

  nudeyooper

  Dec 29, 2019

  If you lie then repeat that lie over and over again, people start to believe that lie is the truth. It does not matter what the facts are, in the end those with money and those who vote get what they want.

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• FU

  

  FullSun

  Dec 29, 2019

  [quote]You cant say merry Christmas and longer without someone being offended.[/quote] Ive heard Trump and others claim this and its been a topic of discussion a number of times with friends and others. Not a single person Ive talked to or my wife and I have ever run into anyone being offended by someone saying Merry Christmas. I bet you could count on your fingers the number of times its actually happened. Another false claim by Trump about as valid as his complaints about toilets where you put the same stuff he spews.

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• ME

  Member

  Dec 29, 2019

  I agree. I find myself feeling uneasy about not being able to control who's sharing pics of me. Work might not ask questions and just fire.

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• ME

  Member

  Dec 29, 2019

  I grew up religious and their control on sexuality, nudity (non-sexual), the war on drugs, etc., is appalling. It isn't just at the individual level but extends to our laws. Its influence is even in our schools...

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• PA

  

  Paul

  Dec 31, 2019

  [quote]You cant say merry Christmas and longer without someone being offended. Ive heard Trump and others claim this and its been a topic of discussion a number of times with friends and others. Not a single person Ive talked to or my wife and I have ever run into anyone being offended by someone saying Merry Christmas. I bet you could count on your fingers the number of times its actually happened. Another false claim by Trump about as valid as his complaints about toilets where you put the same stuff he spews.[/quote] It all depends on what part of the country. For example, I recently drove from Florida back to California with stops along the way. People in Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, and Texas had no trouble saying "God bless you". One Sam's club, the lady who checks the receipts as you leave said "God bless you" in the most kind, sincere manner ever. Very refreshing! However, here in California, a store employee who once said "God bless you" to a departing customer was fired because the customer complained to the manager that the lady was "shoving her religious agenda down their throat" or similar. Also here in California, the store employees were all saying "Happy holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas". I would correct them every time, and you could just see the looks on their faces, like I was the crazy one. One last thing... Stop with the President Trump bashing already!!! I'm sick of it. Keep your leftist politics to yourself and I will keep my right-wing politics to myself. Remember, about half the US voted for Trump. People on the left are not a vast majority, so stop assuming everyone else agrees with you.

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• ME

  Member

  Dec 31, 2019

  ^^^^ Like^^^^^

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• ER

  

  Eric/Reina

  Dec 31, 2019

  Stop with the President Trump bashing already!!! I'm sick of it. Keep your leftist politics to yourself and I will keep my right-wing politics to myself.
  
  Remember, about half the US voted for Trump. People on the left are not a vast majority, so stop assuming everyone else agrees with you.
  
  Absolutely agree!

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• JO

  

  John

  Dec 31, 2019

  [quote]Stop with the President Trump bashing already!!! I'm sick of it. Keep your leftist politics to yourself and I will keep my right-wing politics to myself. Remember, about half the US voted for Trump. People on the left are not a vast majority, so stop assuming everyone else agrees with you. Absolutely agree![/quote] Not to mention the ban on "Merry Christmas" started long before Trump even considered running for President. The man may be rude and crude, but you can't argue with the results. He may be exactly what we needed but were afraid to ask for. Unless the Dems step up with some realistic and positive policies, we'll have 4 more years of the Donald. The only agenda item they seem to have is "Bash Trump". Not a winning strategy. Raising my taxes is not a winning strategy either. John aka cobeachbum

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• RT

  

  Reuben Titus

  Jan 7, 2020

  I'd have to agree that most of Christianity is no more than christianized paganism with a significant element of Pharisee thrown in. That is; inventing their own rules to supposedly guard against sin, but the invented rules always backfire causing more transgression.

  I am Seventh Day Adventist, but I recognize tremendous corruption moving in from top down, such incurable corruption that the latest of God's messengers to the church (Ernie Knoll) is declaring that God will have to burn headquarters and the corrupted churches and institutions to clean things up. Not surprising that the church leaders hate him and throw all manner of condemnation his way, the account of his dreams are at formypeople.org Descriptions of horrible events there, but also marvelous scenes of what lies beyond for those who make the right choices. Think winning some big lotto would be wonderful? Read the accounts of Ernie's dreams, to win what he describes is a whole lot better than any puny state lotto. Can't put a price on living in a glorious perfect world for all eternity, in real life, not some ethereal spirit realm. And being free to roam the universe freely at infinite speeds, being welcomed at any of the billions of inhabited planets out there as a royal visitor, direct of kin to the greatly beloved King of the universe. Whatever ya do, don't miss out!!!! It going to be so fantastic.

  We know how hard against nudity the professed Christians have been, But what they/we profess to believe in is the validity of Eden, and God's plan to get us back to Eden through the merits of Jesus Christ. But what was Eden? It was naturist gardening in paradise. So why is naturism condemned now? It's quite inconsistent to profess belief in something while condemning a principal element of it . And the simple logic that the isolation of the body under fabric has instigated the rise of lust addictions and much moral crime, is almost completely missed.

  There are several prominent pagan elements in Christianity. The observance of Sunday came from sun worship and got incorporated into Christianity between 300-500 AD, finally being enforced by laws with severe penalties in the 500's which caused almost universal switch over from Saturday observance which God's law specifies in honor of Him as our Creator. The belief in the immortality of the soul came from Greek mythology, as well as an eternal hell fire. The bible teaches in no uncertain terms that when we die we're dead and know nothing until the resurrection. And that hell fire doesn't happen until after all the wicked are raised, 1000 years after Jesus second coming and the resurrection of the the saved, it is the fire that burns up all the corruption on this earth, and it is terminal, burns up and goes out. The final elimination of all evil. Then the earth is recreated in wonderful beauty to be the naturist paradise again that it was supposed to be.

  With the prohibition against common nudity being a "pharisee" rule that does nothing to prevent immorality, but actually causes a lot of it.

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