LOOKING FOR HELP TO PROMOTE THE NUDE LIFESTYLE

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• SA

  

  Stone Andy

  Jul 7, 2021

  [quote] Right now, nudism is predominately an older oriented lifestyle. Very little in the way of younger people, especially women. Frankly, in order for this lifestyle to be sustainable, its base needs to improve in its younger membership. I have some ideas on how to do this, but I cant do it alone and I need input from younger generations. ... Hope there are others out there who can provide me with some help in making this happen. Any thoughts are appreciated.[/quote] I am similar in age and geography to you. My basic conclusion is that we've blown it as far as nudism goes and are by definition not the ones who can fix things. Maybe the word nudism itself can't be fixed but needs to die and become redefined in its nontextile glory. We need to let go to the next generation and support their efforts, efforts from which maybe we'll be excluded. No matter. It's not about us. It's about maintaining human decency and respect unrelated to clothing. Maybe the best way to care, encourage and sustain nudism is to get out of the way. Otherwise we're arguing over details which may be completely irrelevant to younger generations. I don't know and am comfortable not having the answers. How can we support the next generation?

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• EV

  

  Evolutionii

  Jul 7, 2021

  I wish you good luck in your endeavor.
  Perhaps you should study German society & attitudes. "Naturism" seems much more accepted & practiced in that culture.

  In American culture, from what I see in the locker rooms the future is running around wrapped in a towel over their swim suit or underclothes. They get those attitudes from their parents & the teachers. I can't imagine schools teaching students to be calm with their bodies, I think they barely discuss bodies for fear of a lawsuit.

  If you could get the YMCA's to offer naked mens swim & naked womens swim sessions again. I think that would go far to calming people down.

  Good luck to you on this journey & I hope your wife comes along with you.

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• JO

  

  John

  Jul 7, 2021

  Getting younger people involved in nudism has been a perennial problem and topic of discussion. There have been a few positive steps: I hear that some American fraternities and sororities have occasional "naked parties" where there's an opportunity to socialize with other people in the nude without a context of sex (that is, no more than in any other sort of party). That gives the students a taste of what it is to be nude with other people and see how it feels.

  But we old codgers are not the ones who will make it happen. It will be up to the young folks, just as it was in the last resurgence of nudism in the 1960s, when the counterculture encouraged people to get out of their clothes and experience the world naked. We gave ourselves permission to sample the lifestyle, just as we gave ourselves permission to try pot or wear love beads or go to Grateful Dead concerts.

  There's a great story about advertising. The people who made Guinness stout in Ireland did some marketing research and found that there was a reluctance for drinkers to buy it, based on some preconceived notions about it. So they came up with a slogan: "Guinness. I don't like it because I haven't tried it." Predictably, demand for the product surged. All it took was for somebody to challenge them... to dare them... to try it.

  Nudism is in the same position. People don't like it because they haven't tried it, for a zillion reasons about morality, body image, fear of erections (in men) or being hit on (in women), or the inconvenience of having to travel long distances to enjoy it. Our goal is to get people to try it, at least for one afternoon or evening.

  Another poster believes that there really are many younger people who are nudists, but they have no impact on established nudism because they don't feel that they have anything in common with older nudists. Instead of joining naturist organizations or patronizing resorts, they form their own informal associations based on their circle of friends or co-workers. I have no idea about how to reach out to them, but I think that they are the future of nudism in the US and probably elsewhere as well.

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• CO

  

  Connor

  Jul 7, 2021

  "...its base needs to improve in its younger membership. ...I have some ideas on how to do this, but I cant do it alone and I need input from younger generations. ...there's going to be projects that will require physical interactions (for example if a video is being produced)""Hope there are others out there who can provide me with some help in making this happen. Any thoughts are appreciated.I am open to collaboration..." You may want to inquire at CFI. They have been doing these things that you want to do for a while now. Maybe you can get some feedback from them. clothesfree.com

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• JO

  

  JoeOriginal Poster

  Jul 8, 2021

  I agree that the future of nudism lies in the younger generation, but your suggestion that we need to get out of the way is way off. The truth and promise of nudism is very much reflected in the way the older generation has molded some of the organizational aspects. Its become this way because through our experiences in life, we have come to realize the benefits of the lifestyle, despite the conservative sociology that restricts and allows the lies associating nudity with sexual depravity. In my younger years, my affinity towards nudity developed through personal introspection and the idea of nudist camps was more of an isolated phenomenon that held no real credibility. Today that idea still permeates and in all honesty, its because the older generation has not done enough to help dispel that concept. Getting out of the way will certainly seal nudisms fate, much to the religious rights pleasure. We owe it to the movement to help create a more inclusive atmosphere, promoting a more promising environment that doesnt have to settle for this type of idea that its just for old people. Instead of " getting in the way", let's work together in finding ways to positively influence the image of our own nudity and make it inclusive for all walks of life.

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• JO

  

  JoeOriginal Poster

  Jul 8, 2021

  Evolutionii - Thanks for the suggestion, but I have done a lot of significant research and you are quite right that other countries have greater success in having nudist lifestyle environments. I believe the United States could achieve similar success if a larger image campaign was implemented that addressed the illogical idea that its a sexual phenomenon rather than some legitimate lifestyle. The organizations here seem more focused on maintaining the status quo rather than using its presence to address our social shortcomings in understanding the difference between nudity and human sexuality. I have some ideas on how to combat some of this but I need some female oriented input so that anything I do does not come off as onesided from a male perspective. Hopefully I will find someone closer to home that will enable more continuity in developing a plan to do some of the things I'd like to do. And thank you for your comment about my wife. I would so much love for her to join, but we all know that this lifestyle is not for everyone and I think she's got a permanent spot on that one!

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• JO

  

  JoeOriginal Poster

  Jul 8, 2021

  woodsman21 - I'm sensing the uncomfortable notion that as long as old people are a fundamental part of nudism, its never going to attract a younger crowd. There is some truth in that perception, but what were forgetting is that it is a perception based on a limited exposure model. You yourself indicated that some positive exposure via college campuses in having parties that resulted in nude activities could be construed as a step forward, but I think more the opposite because the atmosphere in that setting is more leaning towards a sexual environment than a "nudist" one. That in itself has resulted in a very serious misconception that where there is nudity, there has got to be sex. If the activities actually resulted in interactions that resulted in casual human behaviors normally done with clothing on - without sexual expectations - then I would agree on your conclusion. However, the reality is quite different, as is evidenced by numerous videos on our internet.

  Ones exposure to actual nudism can dispel most anyone's concern. The road to attempting a walk in that environment is plagued by any number of challenges which our own society has created. The act of taking ones clothes off in front of strangers places an uneasy situation on most persons psyche. Nudity has been ingrained in America as a privately confined concept and to consider such an idea is counterintuitive based on any number of generalities. In order to combat this condition, people need to know that the positives of taking such a risk far outnumber the negatives. Utilizing the younger generation in facing this challenge is difficult because in the most general sense, they are themselves young adults for the first time without sufficient understandings that exists about this culture. There has to be a way to reach these minds in a amicable manner that allows them to appreciate the possibilities that this lifestyle has to offer.

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• JO

  

  John

  Jul 8, 2021

  Thank you for giving my post such serious consideration. I didn't mean to imply that we older people have no role to play. But if our attitude is that we are a scene that young people will have to adapt to, rather than us adapting to them, we're not going to see a lot of participation from younger people.

  Some mention was made in my post of young people discovering nudism on their own, through association with friend who find clothing unnecessary while swimming, hot tubs, and so on. They've already found that getting naked in front of other people is no big thing. Whether organized nudism gives them more opportunities to practice nudism depends on how effective we are at evangelizing it.

  One more thing: I consider those parties at "Greek" clubs on campus to be a step in the right direction, despite the undercurrent of sexual attraction. Let's face the fact that nearly ALL social events on campuses have an undercurrent of sexual attraction, regardless of the type or amount of clothing involved. (At least, that's how it was when I was in college, where we went in search of somebody to have sex with. I don't think that students today are any more pure and chaste than we were.) But if we can take an established way of having the sexes socialize, and take the added step of removing clothes, it gives them a chance to taste the apple. (I should have added that attendees are forewarned that sex will be off the table.)

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• SA

  

  Stone Andy

  Jul 9, 2021

  [quote]I agree that the future of nudism lies in the younger generation, but your suggestion that we need to get out of the way is way off. ... Instead of " getting in the way", let's work together in finding ways to positively influence the image of our own nudity and make it inclusive for all walks of life.[/quote] I wholeheartedly agree but believe "our" generation has failed miserably in making nudism inclusive for all walks of life. In this part of the country, our resorts require cars, have relatively expensive fees and practice blatant sexual discrimination (at least my personal experience as a single dad). It leaves relatively well-off aging straight couples to define nudism, and in the process it often becomes a defense of idiosyncratic values such as denying we are sexual beings just because we happen to be naked. If "our generation" can positively influence the image of our nudist lifestyle with things like a resort ride sharing app, a vegan snack bar and microbrews, it might be a good start, at least a willingness to show we care. I don't think Millennials have body issues or need to learn from our example, though we can mistakenly get that impression. I see them as more pragmatic, less dogmatic and gladly willing to escape whatever labels and assumptions we put on them. Getting out of the way doesn't mean giving up. It's more along the lines of admitting our failures and outdated thinking, It's following younger generations' lead and holding our organizations from resorts to AANR accountable to policies that refuse to tolerate both inappropriate behavior and the discriminatory "let the right ones in" sexist policies. We can get out of the way by asking some hard questions and showing we can listen and are willing to learn. We care and they might never know it. Let's show it, with textiles or not.

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• CY

  

  CoR YYC

  Jul 10, 2021

  Spot on, stoneandy. The very basis of most thinking of established nudist organizations is outmoded, and they are oblivious or dismissive of significant concerns of the newer generations. The established generations can and should provide insight, but I would caution against insisting on providing direction to the newer generations who define and align their values in ways that evade the thought processes of most established nudist organizations. stoneandy wrote: [quote] The trick is to support change on their terms rather than the comfortable and likely outdated assumptions I hold.[/quote]

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• BO

  bob

  Jul 10, 2021

  Hi. i read all the posts and suggestions and good intentions . The one thing i find missing if people want change and are willing to strive to get to that end in reality is any involvement of the young folks in this conversation.. That alone should be the biggest red flag of how serious the problem is. Also the lack of the "accepted m/f couples, single women, married solo women with or with out children are not joining the conversation because it would upset the Norm of their resorts and their spot at the table so to speak and what they perceive as their right and safety zones they have established ,,, Many of the old hippies are dead or at least what they started they kicked dirt on. They became the "establishment " the had rebelled agains! They became the bully on the beach kicking sand in all the weaklings faces.. Not a pretty picture mr and mrs boomer , is it ?

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• JO

  

  JoeOriginal Poster

  Jul 10, 2021

  One huge aspect that has a direct correlation to this lifestyle is the degree of importance it has on society itself. My father once belonged to the "Moose" club, and even today I still dont know what it truly represented but my father was an avid member throughout the earlier years of his adulthood. As a child, my take on it was a social hangout for adults similar to the clubbing type of atmosphere we have today. Now that he is gone and I am much older, it has occurred to me that that clubbing venue took on a whole different meaning than what my limited perception as a child was like. You see, my father was not the type to drink a lot or do the young socialite type of action that most people associate it with. So why was my father interested in something that I never seen as part of the whole picture? Truth was, my father loved to play cards, poker mostly and when he was among other men, he drank some beer. That was the attraction for him.

  The point to all this is, nudism is a similar type of perception to others among general society. To them, the perception is that a bunch of people get naked around each other and what do most people do when naked? SEX! Why else would we get nude? So when all is said and done, sex has always been a personal and private affair that society really has no bearing on. They dont want to know what other people are doing sexually so the idea of an organization legitimizing nudity seems far fetched and not rising to the level of importance needed to be taken more seriously. Due to negative perceptions surrounding nudity, others are more likely to see it as a fad or like a quick trip to an amusement park where you take in all the attractions and then call it a day, only opting to maybe check it out once in awhile.

  Young people are as much a solution to nudist advocacy as older people are. We need to look outside the box and broaden the opportunities beyond simple membership drives. We need to show that nudism can rise to the same level of importance as the me too movement, or how the LGBTQ movement has risen to its current prominence. We need to make people want to appreciate what this lifestyle can offer to society, not just some personal status symbol. We know how much this life reduces stress, we know how the very nature of the nudist condition provides the most positive environment. A nude lifestyle is so much more than simply taking off our clothes. All of this needs to be conveyed to society. This message cannot just be shared amongst ourselves. All walks of life needs to be a part of this because its not just for certain people. As we all come together, it will all make perfect sense. That my friends is our first big step in reinventing this lifestyle - sharing the responsibility, not assigning it to others.

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• TD

  

  Tom D

  Jul 10, 2021

  [quote]One huge aspect that has a direct correlation to this lifestyle is the degree of importance it has on society itself. My father once belonged to the "Moose" club, and even today I still dont know what it truly represented but my father was an avid member throughout the earlier years of his adulthood. As a child, my take on it was a social hangout for adults similar to the clubbing type of atmosphere we have today. Now that he is gone and I am much older, it has occurred to me that that clubbing venue took on a whole different meaning than what my limited perception as a child was like. You see, my father was not the type to drink a lot or do the young socialite type of action that most people associate it with. So why was my father interested in something that I never seen as part of the whole picture? Truth was, my father loved to play cards, poker mostly and when he was among other men, he drank some beer. That was the attraction for him. The point to all this is, nudism is a similar type of perception to others among general society. To them, the perception is that a bunch of people get naked around each other and what do most people do when naked? SEX! Why else would we get nude? So when all is said and done, sex has always been a personal and private affair that society really has no bearing on. They dont want to know what other people are doing sexually so the idea of an organization legitimizing nudity seems far fetched and not rising to the level of importance needed to be taken more seriously. Due to negative perceptions surrounding nudity, others are more likely to see it as a fad or like a quick trip to an amusement park where you take in all the attractions and then call it a day, only opting to maybe check it out once in awhile. Young people are as much a solution to nudist advocacy as older people are. We need to look outside the box and broaden the opportunities beyond simple membership drives. We need to show that nudism can rise to the same level of importance as the me too movement, or how the LGBTQ movement has risen to its current prominence. We need to make people want to appreciate what this lifestyle can offer to society, not just some personal status symbol. We know how much this life reduces stress, we know how the very nature of the nudist condition provides the most positive environment. A nude lifestyle is so much more than simply taking off our clothes. All of this needs to be conveyed to society. This message cannot just be shared amongst ourselves. All walks of life needs to be a part of this because its not just for certain people. As we all come together, it will all make perfect sense. That my friends is our first big step in reinventing this lifestyle - sharing the responsibility, not assigning it to others.[/quote] Moose is a fraternal, social and charitable organization, similar to the Elks, but smaller in number.

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• JO

  

  JoeOriginal Poster

  Jul 10, 2021

  minimalist75 - thanks for that enlightenment, but the only reason I brought it up was to demonstrate the obscure relationship between that of the nude lifestyle and how my youthful perceptions of the Moose as an organization led to a less than complete understanding of what it was about. Society as a whole treats the nude lifestyle much in the same way as I did to the Moose as a kid.

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• SA

  

  Stone Andy

  Jul 11, 2021

  [quote]A nude lifestyle is so much more than simply taking off our clothes. All of this needs to be conveyed to society. This message cannot just be shared amongst ourselves. All walks of life needs to be a part of this because its not just for certain people. As we all come together, it will all make perfect sense. That my friends is our first big step in reinventing this lifestyle - sharing the responsibility, not assigning it to others.[/quote]
  
  What's the difference between not wearing clothes and being a nudist? I see two things: intention and social interaction. Otherwise everyone's a nudist in the shower. In this part of the US, nudity is forbidden in public places and men are discriminated against from resorts, leaving private social groups and homes to be naked in. For me that's not enough to consider myself a nudist. I don't feel I have a voice as a single male to promote a lifestyle I'm discriminated from, so I'd rather leave it be. There may be laws keeping me from nudity on public property and policies to keep me away from private property where others gather naked, but I'm the same with or without pants and will maintain my freedom and independence. I'll focus on that even I don't know what to call it, and I'd rather talk about the privilege of being pantless with younger people who hold values similar to mine. To the AANR people who think I'm evil for having a penis, we have different values and no reason to associate.

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• GO

  

  Gordy57

  Jul 11, 2021

  Another issue with the younger crowd is lack of time. As an example I was at a friends lake place yesterday. There were 3 - 25 year olds that came up for the weekend, they spent much of their time focused on their phones rather than enjoying the lake. Talk of skinny dipping totally grossed them out :-(

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• JO

  

  JoeOriginal Poster

  Jul 13, 2021

  Stoneandy - The ONLY difference between the nudist lifestyle and the textile lifestyle is that one negates the requirement for clothing. For all practical purposes we are all the same. Nudists essentially do the same things as textiles do in every day life. Socially speaking however, nudists are not simply free to be nude in public surroundings. I believe that were it permissible for Americans to go nude in public , nothing really different would happen. You would see the occasional nudist going about their business but with a conservative social structure firmly in place, it would take some time for others to go against the mainstream socially accepted standard. You would get some uproar from religions and prudes, but in general Americans would mind their own business and avoid looking at nude transgressions that seemed offensive to them. You are correct about the blatant sexual discrimination for single men and we should develop a rational response to combat this trend. They need to realize the harm that it causes our movement and come up with a more realistic approach in preventing voyeuristic conditions that plague our female members. Discriminatory policies benefit no one.

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• JO

  

  JoeOriginal Poster

  Jul 13, 2021

  menasnem - I made the point of the relation of nudity to sex purposely so that people can understand that the true curse to our movement is a perception problem. Internally, this problem does not exist because all real nudists comprehend that nudity in and of itself has nothing to do with sex. Textiles cannot envision this because of their limited knowledge of what nudity provides for those desiring sexual fulfillment. The visual context of a nude is not what presents the sexual opportunity, it's the predisposed mental state of a person that feeds the desires which lead towards sexual motivation. Your situation listings are nothing more than judgements based on assumed desires. As long as we accept these ideas ourselves, textiles will continue to make the same erroneous assumptions. Educating the textile world in a manner that makes sense to them will go a long way towards winning greater acceptance of this lifestyle. This education doesnt have to be some overwhelming ad campaign that is costly. Were at the beginning of this internet age where there are huge platforms out there that can be used to effectively promote truth and understanding. In the beginning, we need to smartly determine which platforms will be more acceptable at distributing the legitimacy of the movement and as perceptions towards nudity improve, we can increase this information proportionally.

  And you are very correct that events like the nude bike ride are exactly the type of PR content we need. More importantly, this context should be expanded and as more of this becomes known, so will the acceptance from others who are not nudist oriented. As people realize that it is a legitimate concept, the more it will become more comfortable for others to become more open to the experience. How long this will take will depend on how motivated we are in order to come together and help fight these negative associations towards nudity.

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• TD

  

  Tom D

  Jul 13, 2021

  [quote]Stoneandy - The ONLY difference between the nudist lifestyle and the textile lifestyle is that one negates the requirement for clothing. For all practical purposes we are all the same. Nudists essentially do the same things as textiles do in every day life. Socially speaking however, nudists are not simply free to be nude in public surroundings. I believe that were it permissible for Americans to go nude in public , nothing really different would happen. You would see the occasional nudist going about their business but with a conservative social structure firmly in place, it would take some time for others to go against the mainstream socially accepted standard. You would get some uproar from religions and prudes, but in general Americans would mind their own business and avoid looking at nude transgressions that seemed offensive to them. You are correct about the blatant sexual discrimination for single men and we should develop a rational response to combat this trend. They need to realize the harm that it causes our movement and come up with a more realistic approach in preventing voyeuristic conditions that plague our female members. Discriminatory policies benefit no one.[/quote] You are probably right about nudity remaining rare. In New York it has been legal for women to be topless at parks, beaches and some other public places for years, but still very few are.

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• JO

  

  JoeOriginal Poster

  Jul 13, 2021

  That's an excellent point. I lived in NY for the first 57 years of my life and I remember when the "Topfree 7" were arrested and it went to court where eventually the courts determined that allowing men to go topless but not women was discriminatory. Since that time, nothing has really changed. Sometimes a woman will test things and go topless in a park but it largely goes un-noticed. The textile standard is a lot to overcome, especially when we look to our neighbors to coexist in a neutral way. The perception that our pubic region needs to stay covered for some unsubstantiated beliefs is a prime example of how society's influence is able to establish standards of behavior without valid reasoning. But its still possible to change these perceptions as is evidenced in the LGBTQ movement. Back in the 80's, being Gay was considered very bad and it had a reputation of being the primary source of AIDS. While it took some time, it has been redefined and it is now a strong social platform that has been able to gain recognition as an equal counter part of Americas social structure. There is no reason that nudism cannot achieve the same type of results.

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• SA

  

  Stone Andy

  Jul 14, 2021

  Excellent thread! I'm trying to bring it to a practical level where change can happen. Let's assume most people don't care about others' nudity, but feel vulnerable regarding their own. The point of nudity=sex is well taken as young men can be embarrassed not by exposing their penises, but rather having fear they're signaling something sexual in the process. People are busy - all people - so promoting events is easier than a lifestyle or ism. People generally fall into them and want to define it on their terms, which is one reason churches are such revolving doors. Getting back to the World Naked Bike Ride, it's great promotion since it's 1) a happening 2) damn impossible to have sex on a bicycle or to have some spokes to hide behind like dune grass 3) centrally located 4) excellent "exposure" and 5) fun and daring.
  So my thoughts about promoting nudism are no somewhere along the lines of: 1) Forget resorts as out of touch, out of reach and out of style 2) make it a fun happening that breaks the paradigm that nudity must lead to either washing or sex and 3) figure out a way to use social media to make nakedness more viral than potentially embarrassing (face mask friendly) and 3) make it all-inclusive, safe/non-predatory and affirming.

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• BO

  bob

  Jul 14, 2021

  They need to realize the harm that it causes our movement and come up with a more realistic approach in preventing voyeuristic conditions that plague our female members. Discriminatory policies benefit no one.
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  Points well taken . Except something that always seems to get lost is that you just legitimized that women shoul dbe treat as if they are a victim instead of a full participating member or nudist which sets the stage for them to abuse that analogy and for other to abuse that line of accepted thinking . Which puts the blame on men , wether they done anything wrong or not . guilty till proven innocent in affect . and the older boys see it at resorts they grew up in and dont want that put on them , so the leave. It almost seems you folks that have that mind set can't see the forest for the trees, or the stumps.

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• JO

  

  JoeOriginal Poster

  Jul 15, 2021

  Trkrbob1 - Nowhere in my posting have I indicated how women are victims here. You are inferring this because there exists a policy among some resorts that single men are not openly welcomed due to the prevalence of their voyeuristic nature towards women. The predominate point here being made is one of discrimination, not victimization. In fact, if anyone is being victimized here its single men. I will say that if this is indeed a big issue for resorts, they should apply it on a case by case basis and not make assumptions that all single men fall into this category. This mind set that you have labeled is not an accurate portrayal in this discussion. If you see it this way, then I respectfully disagree with your inference and that you should try and look at it in a different light. Perhaps getting out of the forest might help.

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• JO

  

  JoeOriginal Poster

  Jul 15, 2021

  woodsman21 - You were indeed a lucky person. I wish that opportunities like that were evident in my time, but I was not personally aware of nudism type of activities until after leaving high school. At that time, the idea of nudist camps had taken on pornagraphic undertones and the common thought was more about depravity rather than wholesome living. American history with nudism has never really been very positive, and today, it still struggles with some historic perceptions. In some ways it seems like the American social structure is not quite ready to embrace just yet. But I believe its time to re-educate society in a way that provide sustainability no matter what challenges come our way.

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