In your opinion, do labels matter? Why?

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• EA

  

  EarlD

  Jan 6, 2023

  People dont like labels until they do. When some people decry labels its usually because it doesnt serve their interests. It has been my experience that the same people will adopt and use labels whe it serves some perceived interest. I had a long debate with someone about that once online but then visited their online profile only to find them using several identity label.

  Bottom line is we all have identities that define the way we see ourselves some more than others. We use labels to reflect those identities.

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• SA

  

  Stone Andy

  Jan 6, 2023

  I believe labels can both leverage and smother us. We are free to use them as we evolve. One one hand they can help reframe us and our thinking, but can also throw us into a ghetto of narrow-mindedness. It's currently in vogue to use orientation labels, which I refer to as prefixed sexuality. In a way they remind me of the hyphenated Americanism that emerged when I was growing up ("Kiss me, I'm Irish-American"). I've has a hard time adopting one that fits. If I get aroused from the warm rays on my sun-starved body, does that make me solarsexual? Let me examine labels in a broader context than just sexual ones.
  As an immigrant kid I've struggled "fitting in" and being thought of as "not from here" no matter where I live, all without the added sting of racism which some experience. It's not easy but somehow I'm wealthier as a result.
  The US is also very Puritanical (in some parts more than others), which means that we gravitate towards black/white thinking and tend to become more cartoonish and extreme in our behaviors. The ability to reinvent ourselves is a blessing, though sometimes we feel forced to accept between false opposites. Choose labels carefully as result.
  The best labels reinforce our natural strengths and define what we can offer spontaneously and generously. You inherently understand the nuances which helps you to give a properly measured response. For example, if you're Mexican you can share the glories of your cuisine without knowing perhaps all regional differences but elevating things a mile higher than the basement knowledge of Taco Bell.
  Give those things that add life and vitality with your labels and let go of the results. You'll be a shining light to others in the process. I for one have leaned an incredible amount from gays who have "come out" to embrace my authenticity and individual dynamics that I was derided for growing up. In other words, if you have something to hide, paint it red.

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• RA

  

  Raven47

  Jan 6, 2023

  Labels can be helpful early in a relationship/friendship, but can lead to division. While Ketanji Brown Jackson is an excellent choice for the Supreme Court, prior to her actual nomination it was widely reported that the search was for an African American woman. This makes it appear that her race and sex were determining factors in her selection, tainting it.

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• ST

  

  Steve

  Jan 6, 2023

  As others have said, labels are both useful and limiting. They can serve very different purposes.

  A label I adopt for myself can help me organize my self-concept and find my position in the community, whether or not I articulate it to others.

  A label I adopt for myself, if I articulate it, tells others something about me that I want them to know.

  A label others apply to me necessarily limits me in their eyes. People don't really think of themselves as "Asian", for example, but as Indian or Japanese or whatever. "Asian" is really a name for a body of prejudices; the group to which it applies is simply those who are subject to those prejudices. These labels are important politically, but not personally.

  The same label can work in all three ways, and differently in different people's lives at different times.

  When I first identified myself as "gay', it was a tool for understanding myself. Then it became an essentially political tool, with which I identified myself as part of a group, many of which I had almost nothing in common with except that the wider society regarded us negatively, and with whom I made common cause as an activist for societal acceptance.

  Now, it's a label I use to tell people about myself in a shorthand way, although I no longer think of gayness as something I am; I didn't marry my husband because of his gender, but because I love him.

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• TR

  

  Trekrider2779

  Jan 6, 2023

  As a gay male, labels are very important. Labelling myself as "gay" means that females know straight away not to try to pick me up. It also tells other men that I might be interested. Similarly, when a guy labels himself as "straight", it signifies he's interested in females but not males.
  Thus, we save the time wasting and disappointment, thinking someone that takes our fancy might be interested when they are not. My own experience with men that don't like labels, is that they have a closet gay side which they're not comfortable admitting to.

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• NU

  

  nudist14

  Jan 6, 2023

  I totally agree with you well said!!!

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• JO

  

  Jorgi

  Jan 6, 2023

  [quote]My own experience with men that don't like labels, is that they have a closet gay side which they're not comfortable admitting to.[/quote] I am gay, and don't like labels. They seem to be more a way of separating people rather than uniting them. Too much them and us.

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• BB

  

  Bill Bowser

  Jan 6, 2023

  I cant imagine how things would be without labels. People wouldnt have names, places wouldnt have names, every object in the known universe would be called a thing. Labels, or names are what we use to differentiate one thing from another. To not like them is ridiculous.

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• ST

  

  Steve

  Jan 7, 2023

  I label myself as gay because it's a good shorthand for the way I am living my life, married to a man. If I were single, I'm not sure I'd identify myself as gay, except when called on to do so in the political sense, lest I seem to be running away from it. But personally, every person is their own unique self, not their gender, and deserves to be met with full and genuine openness.

  To take a less freighted example. You may say you like blondes. If the word "blondephile" existed, you might adopt it as a label. First point, why the plural? Won't you interact with them one at a time? Aren't you open to focusing on one particular person? Second point, people are not their hair color. What does it mean, what does it really do, to announce to every brunette you meet that you're a blondephile? It closes doors, and it's kinda rude. Sure, if social recognition of your blondephile tendencies had led to significant difficulties you had to push back against - if there were a supportive blondephile community the label gave you membership in - you might harden your identification with the label. But in a personal - not political - sense, does it really serve you?

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• NU

  

  NudeWriter

  Jan 7, 2023

  I have posted about this and had two posts deleted - by whom? - probably because I called it by a different name. Homophobia. Thats what it is. Its not about labels, its about the homophobia of chat room moderators. People can use labels like male, female, Christian, black, etc, and thats fine, but if you dare use the label of Gay in the chat room, you can be muted or banned. Which is disappointing especially here, where we come to be ourselves, nudists, without judgment. I use the label Gay to find my tribe on here, as everyone does with their own labels. If I were to say no one cares that youre a Christian then I would get booted for that opinion, but thats exactly what happened to me when I said I was gay. Its homophobia. And Im tired of it.

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• BI

  

  Bill

  Jan 7, 2023

  Wearing labels doesn't hurt anyone until the end of the day, when you try to remove them before bed and they rip all your hair out and it hurts!

  Comedy sometimes supersedes the metaphor, but in this case...grab that label and rip fast - that lessens the pain. Trying to learn about someone by reading their 'label' is tricky because there's always a sticky side. Preconceptions get in the way. Learning about a person through conversation and interaction rather than through some pigeonholing nomenclature seems more accurate, more appropriate, and certainly more respectful of their nuances.

  And in the end, isn't a label little more than another way to hide behind something, sorta like clothing?

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• ST

  

  Steve

  Jan 7, 2023

  [quote]And in the end, isn't a label little more than another way to hide behind something, sorta like clothing?[/quote] Love it.

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• EA

  

  EarlD

  Jan 7, 2023

  [quote] And in the end, isn't a label little more than another way to hide behind something, sorta like clothing?[/quote] But who am I to tell someone that they shouldnt do that? If someone wants to identify themselves using a label even if it means they are hiding behind something I dont think it my right to discredit it that. I can say that is not how I see it and have a rigorous debate about that. But I will not tell someone they cant do that in fact I will fight their right to do so.

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• BI

  

  Bill

  Jan 8, 2023

  [quote]And in the end, isn't a label little more than another way to hide behind something, sorta like clothing? Could you clarify what you mean by this? For example, my profile says I'm gay. That's telling you something about me. How is that hiding?[/quote] There are typically two different positions when people are debating something, and often many more, but for this argument let's stick to objective and subjective points of view. If a heterosexual wears a name tag that states they are that, are they attempting to clothes [intentional misspelling] themselves off from interaction with all the other gender/sexuality choices? It might seem so from outside of that person's mind. Labeling other people as opposed to putting one on yourself involves a very different discussion, and we can dive into that any time. Calling other people things, whether derogatory or positive, is still often more of a way to move the discussion forward more than anything. Calling oneself something is the individual's choice and absolutely needs to be preserved. If I came up on someone with a heterosexual tag I'd surely be curious as to why they thought they needed to tell everyone what type of intercourse they prefer. I would at that point hope they don't get it tattooed on, for their own sake.

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• ST

  

  StevieLorna

  Jan 9, 2023

  Evolving is part of being human.

  Once a person who thought you shouldnt label people, to someone who throws labels around like pub darts.

  Thats quite a shift in opinion, and a happy one, as we live in a world full of labels, deserved or not.

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• ME

  Member

  Feb 19, 2023

  Did this thread go to a gay/ homosexual topic as far as labels go? I ask as that has been the majority of the last post. There are other labels beyond those.

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• BI

  

  Bill

  Feb 20, 2023

  If someone 'self-labels' themself with a sexual preference, they are, in a way, closing doors that might otherwise be open, depending on the situation in which they are engaged. Here in TN, anyone can interact with anyone else (looking past unfriending/blocking actions). Here we can tell others - the people who take a moment to look at a filled-out profile and learn a deeper level of information - how we see ourselves. Do I immediately ignore friend requests from people who call themselves gay or lesbian because I'm not? No. I am not here to search for a date - I seek nude interaction, so my self label of straight isn't there in our profile to tell someone who IS looking for a plaything to keep on swiping (though it may likely have that effect), it clarifies my position in the bare world.

  In my final stream of thought, because I don't see this thread with much gusto left in it (but I do enjoy being proven wrong), in the bigger picture of what the original poster was stirring up, labels only matter as much as they can help us to understand each other. They can and often do eventually cause problems, preconceptions or misconceptions. There's no good way to fully ignore them, and anyway, why should we if someone is displaying one? If you want to wear one, do it! But please - not around the pool or hot tub area, that's another form of hiding your physique and inappropriate at a nude place. Keep any labels on the beach towel under your butt, not your skin.

  One last (hopefully) humorous thought: It is permissible for a woman at a nude resort to wear two labels over her nipples, with the one on the right breast saying, "Hi - my name..." and the left, "...is Hillary". Everyone knows that hillary in German means, "She whose breasts defy gravity," don't they?

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• ME

  Member

  Feb 20, 2023

  I'm impressed with the good and intelligent discussion on this topic (unless I missed something earlier), some other topics here can get some angry words and aggresive barbs thrown around. It's great this can be discussed and it seems we are generally more accepting here. The labels gay / straight are accepted, maybe that's because as nudists we can be wary about saying that to others / non-nudists, ie. we are nudists, which does not mean we are pervs or whatever others think happens at a resort or nude beach. Labels on one hand can be problematic in our world as they can be used against us or to categorise us, here it seems less so and more accepting. Our world through the media and society like to label people / groups and often blame is thrown broadly at a group if something goes wrong. That's lazy media work usually and can create awful flow on effects against minorities. Labels do matter to help identify but provided they are understood and respected I think it's OK to use them.

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• TD

  

  Tom D

  Feb 20, 2023

  [quote]. Our world through the media and society like to label people / groups and often blame is thrown broadly at a group if something goes wrong. That's lazy media work usually and can create awful flow on effects against minorities.[/quote] On the rare occasions when a person is nude when committing a crime, it seems like the media always notes the lack of clothing. Same for the much more common situation when a shirtless man breaks a law,

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• ST

  

  StevieLorna

  Feb 21, 2023

  [quote]. On the rare occasions when a person is nude when committing a crime, it seems like the media always notes the lack of clothing. Same for the much more common situation when a shirtless man breaks a law,[/quote] Perceptive. But Police appealing for witnesses say they are looking for a short man wearing cargo shorts a black and white striped shirt and a black beret. Descriptions happen like that all the time. Nude robbery might be rare but the descriptions are not.

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• EA

  

  EarlD

  Mar 19, 2023

  In an ideal world labels may not be needed but in the real world human beings like to categorize maybe even need to in order to develop mental shortcuts used in social interactions. Its why one of the first things that comes up in a new encounter is what do you do? Its a way to categorize or label and individual. [quote]When it comes to people, labels shouldn't really matter but we like to be able to categorise and pigeon-hole others to help us understand them better and work out how we relate to them. The challenge with labels are the biases and assumptions they carry, and also that many are used perjoratively. We can't live without labels but as long as we understand that they are not black and white when it comes to people, we can start to see beyond them and appreciate people are multi-faceted with lots of different, and sometimes even contradictory dimensions. Do labels matter? I think they can be useful but no, I don't think they matter. People matter, not labels.[/quote]

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