Before i pose the topic/question i wish to state my intention is not to insult or to be insulted or indeed to question anyones faith. Faith is an individuals choice and belief and i respect their decision. However! I suppose i'm about to play devils advocate again, so here goes.... i genuinely for sometime have posed a question to certain individuals of DIFFERENT faith, and to date, not received a satisfactory answer, methodist, Jewish (in fact the Rabbi was at a stall at the street fair in Palm Springs called "Ask the Rabbi", so i did! And he became quite rude calling me Ignorant!), particularly Muslims, for reasons which will become obvious, Mormon, Born again christians, a close personal friend who is a Jehovahs Witness, etc etc etc The question is, "If your god is powerful and wise, why did he -in some cases-create, or allow others to create, a religious book that is so ambiguous people all around the world read it and take different meanings from it? Allowing-particularly in the Korans case-radicalism, separatism, etc, Surely if these various gods etc that religious people choose to follow were wise and powerful they would only want one meaning to come from their doctrine, not several?
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RoosterockDec 23, 2010I love to watch these National geographic shows of how the earth was made. Rocks from outer space with 5% moisture caused our oceans. I have no idea what the scientist were drinking that day. Or what about how the moon was made. The earth was hit by an oject from space an knocked out a large chunk and it caused the moon. Then was the earth closer or farther away from the sun when this happened. Scientist change their minds more than most people change there diet. Why is the bible able to tell things that takes humans thousands of years to find out. They used to think the earth was flat, no mountains under the ocean. I will stop believeing in God when there is proof there is not one. What are the odds of everything developing like it has. It is easy to not believe when you are taught or brainwashed in school one certain way so you will be able to pass the class.
ReactReply - VIVixOriginal PosterDec 24, 2010[quote]I know the subject has gotten a bit off base. But just a question to you guys that don't believe in God. What are your thoughts on how we got here. Since it is a scientific fact that once upon a time there was nothing. Where did the something come from. Second what makes you feel guilty when you do something wrong. Where does that come from, is that a DNA pass down you think? And last what kind of sign to you need to believe in God?[/quote] I am not a scientist just an ordinary guy with an ordinary education but i will try and answer you as honestly as possible....thoughts on how we got here..i believe there must be a scientific explanation where certain chemicals/qualities came together in a milisecond and created the birth of man, and just as we haven't discovered the cure for cancer yet we still have not discovered that formula which created us - though with the discovery of dna/cloning etc we are getting nearer to solving the puzzle, though possibly theres a few hundred years to go! Guilt - guilt is just one of the emotions we all have as homo sapiens, happiness sadness etc, nothing to do with religion. Sign to prove theres a god....there will never be a sign as we all know in our heart of hearts there isn't one, simply a horde of people who WANT TO BELIEVE there is one (which there is nothing wrong with), so they use everyday occurrences and say its "gods work" just as they manipulate natural disasters and wars and illnesses etc into their gods will etc etc But what i cant understand is the blind will to believe in something they have never seen-or will do-spoke to, smelt, or touched, something that will never show themselves to them but just forever be something in their own mind. Baffling.ReactReply
- VIVixOriginal PosterDec 24, 2010[quote]I know the subject has gotten a bit off base. But just a question to you guys that don't believe in God. What are your thoughts on how we got here. Since it is a scientific fact that once upon a time there was nothing. Where did the something come from. Second what makes you feel guilty when you do something wrong. Where does that come from, is that a DNA pass down you think? And last what kind of sign to you need to believe in God?[/quote] I am not a scientist just an ordinary guy with an ordinary education but i will try and answer you as honestly as possible....thoughts on how we got here..i believe there must be a scientific explanation where certain chemicals/qualities came together in a milisecond and created the birth of man, and just as we haven't discovered the cure for cancer yet we still have not discovered that formula which created us - though with the discovery of dna/cloning etc we are getting nearer to solving the puzzle, though possibly theres a few hundred years to go! Guilt - guilt is just one of the emotions we all have has homo sapiens, happiness sadness etc, nothing to do with religion. Sign to prove theres a god....there will never be a sign as we all know in our heart of hearts there isn't one, simply a horde of people who WANT TO BELIEVE there is one (which there is nothing wrong with), so they use everyday occurrences and say its "gods work" just as they manipulate natural disasters and wars and illnesses etc into their gods will etc etc But what i cant understand is the blind will to believe in something they have never seen-or will do-spoke to, smelt, or touched, something that will never show themselves to them but just forever be something in their own mind. Baffling. oops, posted twice, sorry!ReactReply
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tompen53Dec 24, 2010I am one of those people that believes in the "Ancient Alien" theory. They introduced new DNA to the peolples of ancient Earth and we came into being. The people of ancient times were in such aug, That they thought these beings were God or Gods. The religions of the world depend on their "faithfull" to give them thier support, (monetary donations, offerings). What would happen to the worlds religions if their faithful said, "We will not support you anymore". Broke religions. Now thats a thought One relion comes to mind. A broke catholic church. No more lavish lifestyle in Rome.
ReactReply - VIVixOriginal PosterDec 24, 2010[quote]Oh well I believe in Santa the Easter Bunny, and the tooth fairy and yep even God....Merry Christmas to all those non believers that still enjoy Christmas.[/quote] Oh Jackie, you have a great way of lightening even the heaviest/deepest conversation up! Having my teeth done at the moment so set to make some money off the fairy, easter bunny ALWAYS fetches me some chocolate eggs, as for god...well lets just say have a wonderful holiday!! xReactReply
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SydneyBeachBumJan 3, 2011The guilt comment, strange. Why dod religious people feel they have a monopoly on morality. If you look at history the opposite seem to be true.
ReactReply - VIVixOriginal PosterFeb 3, 2011
I guess after all this time since first posted and lack of convincing proof/evidence from religious followers the athesist man from UK can finally say point proven?
ReactReply - GE
Gerry-4Feb 3, 2011[quote]I know the subject has gotten a bit off base. But just a question to you guys that don't believe in God. What are your thoughts on how we got here. Since it is a scientific fact that once upon a time there was nothing. Where did the something come from. Second what makes you feel guilty when you do something wrong. Where does that come from, is that a DNA pass down you think? And last what kind of sign to you need to believe in God?[/quote] 1) The transformation of nothing into something has only recently entered the realm of science and I'm not qualified to comment on that at this time. 2) What makes me feel guilty? It used to be my mother. Now, it's something called a conscience. Most people of good upbringing have one. The possiblity of feeling guilty comes with cognitive development and is usually present in human beings from the age of 3. Since a cat will never have a cognitive ability greater than that of a two-year-old child (with the possible exception of Siamese cats), they may feel badly about having disappointed us in some way, but it's not quite guilt. 3) The only god I don't believe in is the one that can be all-powerful, all-knowing, all-merciful and perfectly just at the same time, for such a thing is an impossibility. I would be quite open to the possibility of a god who had, at the most, only two of the aforementioned qualities. Therefore, while this precludes the existence of a Judeo-Christian-Muslim god, I could accept any otherif there is evidence to show she exists.ReactReply - GEGerry-4Feb 3, 2011[quote][quote][/quote]Did Jesus really walk on water?[/quote] At this time of year, I walk on water all the time.
ReactReply - GEGerry-4Feb 3, 2011[quote]An earlier post had a comment about intelligent design that I cannot allow to go unchecked. Shame on you for thinking that it is 'dumb' to believe that life today has evolved through millions of years from humble origins. There is overwhelming evidence to show that natural selection is entirely credible, evidence that is peer reviewed and open to debate in the best scientific tradition.Not so intelligent design.[/quote] I think part of the problem is not enough of us know what natural selection is. The best way to explain it is to compare it to artificial selection. Artificial selection is how we came up with many different breeds of cats, dogs, horses, cows and even some plants. We humans created conditions in which animals having certain characteristics are made to mate with similar members of the same species. Hence, we "selectively" breed these animals, leading to specialised breeds. Because this is initiated and carried out by humans, it is called artificial selection. Natural selection is something similar carried out without human intervention. Some animals have characteristics that, in certain environments and under certain conditions, prove to be advantageous. They eat better and can defend their territory more successfully. They may even appear more desirable to prospective mates. This leads to more reproductive success as their children will tend to have the same characteristics that made the parents so successful. The lineages of less successful members of the species eventually die out. In some cases, entire species die out. There was mention of Hitler in a few posts. Some (not necessarily in this Forum) have accused Hitler of using "Darwinism" to create a superior race. Actually, he was using tried and true farming techniques. Darwin had nothing to do with it.ReactReply
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CanoodlerFeb 20, 2011Magic can do neato things without a scientific or logical basis. Therefore God is magic and uses magic. So religion likes to explain things by saying that the universe and people and pretty trees and moutains were made by magic. That is a fairly crude explanation. When we look into the structure of the building blocks of life, even down to the very subatomic particles that make up the fascinating constituents of its form, we never get to a tiny cell containing the twinkling light of magic. What makes us tick? We're not really sure. But then, should we know all the secrets of the universe after only having delved into them for the last couple thousand years, and in a realistic way only in the last 50 or 60? Are we so arrogant that we think we should know everything there is to know? We may never get the answers but for absolutely sure, we will never even come close to finding them if we hunker down behind an old book or effigy or idol or dogma and claim that any farther is heresy through our own fear of the unknown.
ReactReply - CACanoodlerFeb 20, 2011
Yes, the bible is vague and goes in every direction at once. Freedom of choice is what we have as humans, not what god gave us. Remember, he killed almost everyone with the flood and you still don't think he'd say, hey, I ought to be very clear with these idiots and tell them what's what? Sure he would.
Here's a challenge for the god fearing creationists: Galileo was religious and pious but the church excommunicated him for propounding his understanding of our place in the universe. (Turns out he was absolutely correct). Darwin couldn't state his beliefs for over twenty years for fear of what the religious would do to his career, and life. Whether you believe in creationism or not, Darwin added greatly to our library of understanding about our natural world. He was foremost, an explorer and documenter, carefully recording reality and only then considering its implications. He was also religious, and believed in god. God didn't say how to smelt iron in the bible. He didn't explain the sun or stars to us and he didn't tell us to watch our procreation so that we didn't overrun his big blue and green creation. We had to figure these things out for ourselves. Why then do you backtrack and deny what we have learned? Why perpetuate the church's mistakes? We will be the authors of our own future. Let the Middle East become mired in its own past, desperate to return to the old laws and the sinless (yeah right) days of yore. Please, realize you're only a pawn in the same game. Creationism is like Sharia Law, an illogical haven from having to think or progress. There will always be a search for better understanding. Sit back and if you can't be part of it, at least applaud its efforts. The only people who say they have all the answers are those who won't look for more.ReactReply