The Constitution of the United States

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• BN

  

  Bill Nesc

  Oct 10, 2012

  [quote]No he only wants to take over  a very large part of the economy with the take over of health care he has basically close the Gulf Of Mexico to drilling, he has used the EPA to all but shut down the coal industry and said that "under his energy plan energy prices would basically sky rocket". Although the last example is not socialistic it is fixing the free market and in essence deflating our money. Yes I may be paranoid and a conspiracy theorist but I truly hope I am wrong about this man. If I am not God help us all.[/quote]May God bless President Obama, the UN, the black helicopters
  

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• BN

  

  Bill Nesc

  Oct 10, 2012

  [quote]The broken record returns....[/quote]And so has the Satan worshiper.
  

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• ME

  Member

  Oct 10, 2012

  [quote]To Mr. DJ, As my name suggest I work in the natural gas industry and yes I am a blue collar worker. If I find dangerous conditions, environmental or working conditions I or any other employee for that matter can shut down the job and report said conditions to our superiors, if nothing is done we have the right to be the whistle blower with NO retaliation. Yes the company is there to make a profit and pay dividends to the stock holders of which I am one, so you see if the company does good I do good. And if you live in one of the three states that we operate in you see the benefits of my and my colleagues work every day. Edited by gasman to correct name.[/quote]
  The addressing this is smart-assy, but alright. This is something that should apply to all workers. If any worker of any field notices an unsafe condition, it should be their responsibility to shut stuff down. I'd surely hope they do. Not all companies have stocks. There are companies out there that may have their guidelines, but can find ways to get rid of employees who feel these rules aren't enough and want to be stricter than the standards set by EPA.
  [quote]You have absolutely no interest in the environment do you? All you are interests in is the guvment controlling every aspect of your life so that you do not have to think or take responsibility for anything. Now let me tell you something BOY. I work in the energy business. I am one of the blue collar workers that must follow said regulations. We in the field are as much or more concerned about the environment that pricks such as you. We work in the outside, our recreation involves all that you pretend to love and protect. We are harder on our companies than the EPA. What the real people in the world are bitching about is the EPA saying that carbon dioxide is a dangerous and controllable gas. Give me a freaking break. [/quote]
  Lemme break this down, since I was a little vague. "We are harder on our companies than the EPA." Who is "we"? The workers? They would have to follow the rules of the company, and have no control over their regulations. To say that you are harder on a company than the EPA implies that you can add more restrictions than the company has in place. Acting as a whistle-blower isn't being harder on a company; it is enforcing the standards already set and calling them out when this isn't done. Now, if I worked for a company that didn't really care for what the EPA says about the environment, and I blew the lid off some of  the shady stuff they did, I'm also sure they would find some way to terminate me. I'd call watching my every move and waiting for one little slip-up (even if not my fault) a form of retaliation, even if it can't be proven. They can't fire you specifically for calling them out.

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• SO

  

  Soupie

  Oct 10, 2012

  It makes for a nice Norman Rockwell painting, but it is all about myth making and patriotic hooey.

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• ME

  Member

  Oct 10, 2012

  [quote][quote][quote][quote][quote]It's more of the same profane, angry, bitter rants that make no sense.  You will get used to it if you stick around.[/quote]*sigh*....I'm getting used to these. After going around to different forums for all sides of the political spectrum, I've 'bout seen it all. I'll be here a bit, but definitely try to keep it unlike this. It's not what someone believes that bugs me, but how they try to get the message across....[/quote]Do you honestly think you get any "left" side opinions in US politics? The Dems are an extreme right party and the Repubs are further to the right. Capitalism isn't questioned or challenged in any way.[/quote]
  How so?[/quote]Both parties are corporatist and imperialist. There's no difference between them on ALL the important issues. The differences are rhetorical at best. They do what the powers that be want while in office and lie when they're trying to be elected.
  Anyone with anything different to say gets shunned by the media anyway.[/quote]
  Hmm....Now, if you have an extreme right, and further of the right, you'd have some sort of spectrum there with individuals falling in their places. Either way, thank you. I'll be honest and say, I can't deny that the politicians have their hands in the interests of corporations, regardless of party affiliation. Imperialst? That brings some questions up. How many US bases do you see in other countries? Now, how many bases do other countries have in the US? That alone should make people wonder. To claim it is for defense of the US doesn't hold up. I'm not going to defend my home by traveling two blocks down the road and standing outside the yard of someone I don't trust. If anything, that would make them want to kick my butt.

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• ME

  Member

  Oct 10, 2012

  [quote][quote][quote]....[/quote]It's actually your American dick waving that most people find offensive. Doing more of it won't help your cause.
  I'm not going to bow down to you because of a geographical accident of birth.
  Get some humility.[/quote]Our "dick waving" begins when those that refuse to stand up for what is right and good-like stopping aggressors-like feeding the poor-like healing the sick-likeaiding the afflicted-complain about an aspect of our foreign policy, or our politics, or express envy for our wealth.
  If you are in a neighborhood full of bullies, and you complain that the rich tough guy on the block beats up one of the bullies in defense of a weaker kid, then you need to take care of the bully next time, or don't complain about the neighborhood being a safer place thanks to the rich kid.
  But don't worry-we turn the other cheek when conservatives are in power. We'll save your ass next time you need us. And we don't leave bills.    [/quote]
  Bruce, what most refer to with "dick waving" is the arrogance of acting as world police. Yes, there are bad leaders and threats out there, but we can't cowboy up and strike first at every 'perceived' threat. Preemptive strikes are generally looked down upon. It's like going up and punching someone in the face because they say, "I've got a knife", even without the threat of stabbing. We are also perceived as a threat. Honestly, we are the only country to have used a nuke on another country, so that doesn't sit very well with others. The govt talks a lot of talk about disarmament for "rogues" and everyone else, but continues to hold nukes in places throughout the US. I know how this looks, but I'm just giving another perspective. I've talked to people from a few different places (Turkey, Iraq, Kuwait, Germany, Uganda) and kept an open mind. When it comes to the cowboy thing, yes, there are country leaders who many perceive as threats, but in reality, they might not be that big of a threat. Even with Iraq (this little doozy leaves a special place in my heart), there was so much drumming up of war. The govt and media constantly said the words, "terrorist", "WMD", "nuclear", etc. Many people here are STILL scared half to death to step foot on any other soil, believing that America is the only safe place. All I'm saying is that people here let their emotions get the best of them and are too quick to be in favor of war, or intervention in another country's affairs. I was just watching MLK Jr's speech on the Vietnam war.
  
  "And don't let anybody make you think that God chose America as his divine, messianic force to be a sort of policeman of the whole world. God has a way of standing before the nations with judgment, and it seems that I can hear God saying to America, 'You're too arrogant! And if you don't change your ways, I will rise up and break the backbone of your power, and I'll place it in the hands of a nation that doesn't even know my name. Be still and know that I'm God.'"
  

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• ME

  Member

  Oct 10, 2012

  [quote]Bruce I have the feeling that we are talking to a brick wall here.[/quote]I know, right? Please read. It won't hurt you, I promise. I don't know how much more clearly I can say things....

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• DE

  

  DesertRatOriginal Poster

  Oct 10, 2012

  [quote]
  
  Others are pushing for the laws of the United Nations to over rule the Constitution. Exactly who are these people, these "others"?
  
  Diplomats to the United Nations from many Countries believe that the United Nations should be the over ruling government for all Countries and national constitutions should be secondary to the United Nations rule.
  
  Are you hearing this in the neighbourhood?  Does this message come to you while wearing a tin foil hat.
  
  This has been widely reported throughout the internet. Have you ever heard of the UN program Agenda 21?
  
  I know that there is a republican congressman demanding that all muslims be deported (even the ones who are born here, or are legal citizens).  Is that constitutional?
  
  Deportation of natural born citizens is illegal. Many naturalized citizens have had their citizenship revoked and were deported for many different reasons. This is rare but the person was always afforded their Constitutional rights and their citizenship was revoked only after due process.
  
  The constitution has been constantly amended since it was created.
  
  Yes, 27 times but the 21st amendment repealed the 18th amendment so in reality there have been 25 amendments to the original document. The first 10 amendments are known as the Bill of Rights and many signers of the original document would not have signed unless they were first promised the Bill of Rights would be acted upon as a first order of business.
  
  Did the civil rights act offend you?
  
  No, the Civil Rights Act just spelled out what was already in the Constitution. Unfortunately some people refused to believe what the Constitution said and they needed extra incentive. Remember the Civil Rights Act was first enforced by a Republican President using US Armed Forces, with bayonets drawn.
  
  Are there citizens that you believe that should not be included or covered by your constitution?
  
  First it is not my constitution; it is the Constitution of the United States of America. The Declaration of Independence lays the groundwork for the Constitution. It states that all men, (women included), are created equal and they have certain unalienable rights. The Constitution is the document that guarantees these rights.
  
  Freedom of speech?
  
  Yes, everyone has freedom of speech but with certain limitations. The SCOTUS has stated that just because you have free speech does not give you the right to yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater.
  
  Religion?
  
  Religion is a case of one man's freedom ends at another person's nose. In other words, just because you want to exercise your rights does not give you the right to impose your beliefs upon an unwilling recipient. A good example for us if we wanted to establish The Church of Nudism. It would be fine for all of us to join and participate, but we could not drag people off the street, baptize them by stripping them naked and threaten them with bodily harm if they left. We would probably be violating the textiles' rights if we held our services outdoors in full view of the general public.
  
  Please expand.
  
  The one "Right" that has not been fully enumerated and it eventually will be coming before the Supreme Court in the future is the Right of the unborn to life. Roe v Wade only dealt with the rights of the mother. Some time it will be tested if the unborn does indeed have rights.[/quote]

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• ME

  Member

  Oct 10, 2012

  For further reference:
  http://www.un.org/esa/dsd/agenda21/
  

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• SO

  

  Soupie

  Oct 10, 2012

  Well that is odd Desert because Romney said today that there will be no abortion legislation in his term.  What could he have meant?  When a couple of weeks ago he said that if legislation came to his desk banning abortion he would sign it.  Which is it?
  The part of your speech that I associated with a tin foil hat was the suggestion the Sharia Law would become the law of the land.  You can't possibly believe that inanity.

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• SO

  

  Soupie

  Oct 10, 2012

  And you would have to be truly naive that the U.S. always has the purest intentions when invading a country or messing with their domestic affairs.  Do you know how many brutal military dictatorships the U.S. has installed or supported?  In the seventies, the Nixon administration and the CIA overthrew a democratically elected president in Chile and installed a dictator that murdered thousands of people.  Was that for the good of the people?
  And I always wonder why when so many of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis there were no questions or talk of war against Saudi Arabia.  Bush made sure that the only plane allowed out was full of the relatives and associates of Bin Laden.  Don't you think that they should have been questioned.  But you see the oil deals in place make Saudi Arabia too important to the U.S.  Human rights abuses go on every day in Saudi Arabia.  But that is never condemned or criticized by the U.S.  Too busy playing bait and switch with the middle east.  It's the ultimate in hypocrisy.

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• ME

  Member

  Oct 10, 2012

  [quote]Well that is odd Desert because Romney said today that there will be no abortion legislation in his term.  What could he have meant?  When a couple of weeks ago he said that if legislation came to his desk banning abortion he would sign it.  Which is it?
  The part of your speech that I associated with a tin foil hat was the suggestion the Sharia Law would become the law of the land.  You can't possibly believe that inanity.[/quote]
  Odd. Gonna have to look at that one....He doesn't control any legislation while going through the Senate and House, but he could veto at his desk, so he couldn't stop it from happening (which is NOT in his power to do). But to sign it?...

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• SO

  

  Soupie

  Oct 10, 2012

  Here's a list of the dictators that the U.S. has supported, brought to you buy military veterans for Justice.  It's 8 pages long.
  http://www.military-veterans-for-justice.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=10&Itemid=13
  

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• SO

  

  Soupie

  Oct 10, 2012

  Not a great record of supporting democracy.

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• ME

  Member

  Oct 10, 2012

  [quote]And you would have to be truly naive that the U.S. always has the purest intentions when invading a country or messing with their domestic affairs.  Do you know how many brutal military dictatorships the U.S. has installed or supported?  In the seventies, the Nixon administration and the CIA overthrew a democratically elected president in Chile and installed a dictator that murdered thousands of people.  Was that for the good of the people?
  And I always wonder why when so many of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis there were no questions or talk of war against Saudi Arabia.  Bush made sure that the only plane allowed out was full of the relatives and associates of Bin Laden.  Don't you think that they should have been questioned.  But you see the oil deals in place make Saudi Arabia too important to the U.S.  Human rights abuses go on every day in Saudi Arabia.  But that is never condemned or criticized by the U.S.  Too busy playing bait and switch with the middle east.  It's the ultimate in hypocrisy.[/quote]Truth is that the US govt has in the past manipulated foreign govts, and they continue to do so. These things are well documented. Funny you should mention Saudi Arabia. I've heard of things going on over there, especially by the police. Not too sure at this point about King Abdullah and the rest of the al Sauds.
  

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• ME

  Member

  Oct 10, 2012

  [quote]Not a great record of supporting democracy.[/quote]Nah...not democracy. We aren't even a democracy, anyways. We're a republic. Our will is carried out through elected representatives. Democracy would infer majority rule, which isn't the case. Some may claim democracy through election of our leaders, but not the case. It is possible for a candidate to get 99% of the popular vote, but fail to get electoral votes, which are what matter in the end. Usually dictatorships (far from democracy), or at the very least a govt that seems to give the illusion of choice to the People.
  
  http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/selects.html
  
  A little light reading:
  "Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths...",
  
  "We may define a republic to be ... a government which derives all its powers directly or indirectly from the great body of the people, and is administered by persons holding their offices during pleasure for a limited period, or during good behavior.   It is essential to such a government that it be derived from the great body of the society, not from an inconsiderable proportion or a favored class of it; otherwise a handful of tyrannical nobles, exercising their oppressions by a delegation of their powers, might aspire to the rank of republicans and claim for their government the honorable title of republic." James Madison, Federalist No. 10, (1787)
  
  http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa10.htm
  

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• SO

  

  Soupie

  Oct 10, 2012

  I'm impressed.

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• ME

  Member

  Oct 10, 2012

  Some of you here should get exactly what I'm saying...Equating "democracy" (as in terms of the People making the decisions) with "freedom", then substituting "republic" (which we really are) with "democracy" is not really in the best interest of the People. Wasn't Orwell mentioned earlier? By the way, Animal Farm is my favorite.
  "All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others."
  
  

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• SO

  

  Soupie

  Oct 10, 2012

  Nothing more prescient than that quote.  It's the mantra of the republican base who don't believe that the rights of women or gays should be protected.  Or any minority for that reason.

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• ME

  Member

  Oct 10, 2012

  [quote]Nothing more prescient than that quote.  It's the mantra of the republican base who don't believe that the rights of women or gays should be protected.  Or any minority for that reason.[/quote]
  Goes far beyond that, though. Not all republicans are against women or gays. Log Cabin Republicans are an example of this, which are gay Republicans. People only tend to look at "social issues" and "morality" in the conservative Christian sense (homosexuality is a sin), and there are those that feel that they should ban it only on those grounds through the use of laws. That's what bothers me about "Republicans" these days. Many will claim "morality" or only look at issues from the social conservative side. They then want to turn around and have further govt restrictions (which goes against the "smaller govt" thing), such as in the case of gay marriage. This issue has no impact on me, personally, and it should be up to the individual. To enforce a ban like this, to me, is advocating more govt influence, but it is in the name of "morals" (which are subjective and can vary from individual to individual...not like looking at murder being right or wrong, which impacts others, especially in a negative way). In the case of gays, some say to allow marriage is an "extra privilege or right", but it really isn't. A lot of misunderstanding there.

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• ME

  Member

  Oct 11, 2012

  I'm just all for govt intervention ONLY when TRULY needed, and banning marriage for gays just doesn't seem to be one of those issues that affect me (or anyone else for that matter), whether I think it is a sin or not. It's not my place to enforce my beliefs on another person (as long as it's between that person and God). This is why the Republican party mostly gets the vote of the Conservative Christian, or any other group against homosexuality in general.

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• SO

  

  Soupie

  Oct 11, 2012

  Add to that the increasing pressure from the republican base to interfere with a woman's reproductive rights.  So many of them want to control a uterus.  In the body of a person that they don't consider has the right to control her own uterus.  They want to impose their morality on that body.
  http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/87be7156f5/republicans-get-in-my-vagina
  

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• MA

  

  ManOfWicklow

  Oct 11, 2012

  [img src="http://www.killmydaynow.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Random-Funny-Photos-Part-285_132.jpg">

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• SO

  

  Soupie

  Oct 11, 2012

  "What sort of chaos will this world be in if tyrants can invade countries, put bayonets through the bellies of pregnant women (is that protected under Roe v. Wade?) and the UN just makes idle threats?"
  
  Considering the number of brutal dictators that the U.S. has backed and installed, you get what you pay for.
  Why didn't the U.S. get involved in the Rwandan genocide?  Could it be because there was nothing of value in that country for them?

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