3 days later I received a call from a conservation officer who had pulled my license plate off the camera, found my contact info, and was issuing me an indecent exposure citation. He repeatedly said that the law stated that nudity on federal land is strictly prohibited, and despite my pleas he refused to give me a break. I haven't received the ticket in the mail yet, so I don't know how much the fine is, but I really don't want to pay this, nor do I want indecent exposure on my record when that was clearly not the case!
In my research I have found no example of this law, most everything I read says the laws are very vague and there has to be lewd or sexual behavior/intent, or that the individual refuses to cover up in front of other people in order for this to be an offense.
I welcome any advice here. While I'm most likely just going to pay this ticket since I can't imagine the embarrassment of standing in a full court room to defend this, I'd really like to know if I have any other options.
Thanks everyone, be safe! UPDATE: I heeded the advice of several people here and I contacted the AANR. Not only were they interested in helping, one of the directors is a local practicing lawyer in the district this case was appointed to. They were able to contact the District Attorney and get him/her to agree to recommend dropping the case. Then they proceeded to get approval from the court clerk to represent me at the hearing, without me needing to be present. They sat in court all day for me, because it was the last case heard and the ONLY one for the entire day that was dismissed. Amazing... All of this was done free of charge to me in return for simply letting everyone know how great AANR is, and to encourage everyone to join! Thanks again to everyone for all of the advice and interest, this all turned out way better than I could have hoped.
Replies
- ST
StevieLornaMay 4, 2020Pay the fine.
Internet advice tends to be worthless.
ReactReply - JO
JonathanMay 4, 2020[quote]Pay the fine. Internet advice tends to be worthless.[/quote] Including, one would imagine, the advice to pay the fine instead of consult someone who knows the law better...ReactReply - ST
SteveMay 4, 2020Only a lawyer can tell you if have any other realistic options. Since there's camera evidence that you were alone with no intent to expose yourself to others, and not being lewd, you might have a fair chance of getting the ticket dismissed. It would be a noble deed, of course, for you to go to court to get the issue settled.
ReactReply - JA
jaybirdsMay 4, 2020Contact AANR for legal help and advice. Of any state in the union, they're very influential in Florida.
ReactReply - ED
EdMay 4, 2020So sorry to read this. I stay go to court; as they might not even show up to argue it. Id explain the law as you understand it and what you did to ensure you were trying to be compliant.
ReactReply - NENeilMay 4, 2020
I'd always understood that there are NO anti-nudity laws on federal land, whereas state land usually has such laws.
I hope you get with a lawyer, and if you could get him/her to clarify that position, we'd all like to know the legal details!
ReactReply - BB
Bill BowserMay 4, 2020You shouldnt feel any embarrassment about defending yourself against this nonsense. Doing so is tantamount to admitting wrongdoing. What you did is entirely harmless, and should be vigorously defended.
The Florida statute reads:
Chapter 800.03, Exposure of sexual organs. It is unlawful to expose or exhibit one's sexual organs in public or on the private premises of another, or so near thereto as to be seen from such private premises, in a vulgar or indecent manner, or to be naked in public except in any place provided or set apart for that purpose.
Which may be enforced on Federal property in a Florida. There is no Federal law prohibiting nudity on Federal property.
If you werent behaving in a vulgar or indecent manner you may be OK, but the last part, or to be naked in public except in any place provided or set apart for that purpose. is problematic.
Good luck, and let us know how this turns out.
ReactReply - DE
dennisMay 4, 2020Before the panic you need to understand what you are being violated with. Hard to do more without knowing what section is used.
ReactReply - PA
PaulMay 4, 2020Being nude in public but not at a place specifically intended for nude use is itself not the wisest thing to do. If it goes to court, you risk the possibility of getting a judge who throws the book at you and makes you register for life as a sex offender or worse.
Like others have already suggested, I also suggest you consult an attorney, who will likely tell you to pay the fine and don't do that again. You're not going to receive the kind of sympathy you do here when facing a judge, jury, lawyer, etc.
Either way, what you did was irresponsible. That's the kind of behavior that sets our "movement" (if there is such a thing) back.
ReactReply - JAjaybirdsMay 4, 2020
In light of these two incidents, and one we recently had here at More Mesa beach in California where a citation was issued, its probably wise to be more careful than usual when nude on public lands, beaches, trails, etc. Not because they are out looking to enforce anti-nudity regulations primarily, but in the current climate there are just more police/sheriffs/rangers assigned to these areas reminding people to follow social distancing requirements. So collaterally, if you also happen to be nude in an area where its technically illegal, dont be surprised if you get a citation, which is what happened out here.
ReactReply - MEMemberMay 5, 2020
Trail cams are becoming a nuicense to us nudists. I have told my stories in other posts with encountering neighbors' cams pointed onto my property. It hasn't caused a big riff between us but enough to be a problem. I inquired on my rights only to find that my municipal law oversees the state law. It basically says that trail cams, drones, viewing devices such as binoculars, etc. are considered the same as the perpetrators eyes. I have no legal recourse against it.
ReactReply - SI
silversurferMay 5, 2020[quote]Trail cams are becoming a nuicense to us nudists. I have told my stories in other posts with encountering neighbors' cams pointed onto my property. It hasn't caused a big riff between us but enough to be a problem. I inquired on my rights only to find that my municipal law oversees the state law. It basically says that trail cams, drones, viewing devices such as binoculars, etc. are considered the same as the perpetrators eyes. I have no legal recourse against it.[/quote] What state is this in? I would think drones would fall under the category as invasion of privacy. As for trail cams, my neighbor in North Carolina put one out near the trail where I would take my dogs hiking while nude. Last time I was there he called me over to show me the footage he had gotten. Thankfully it was off the trail a bit and he only caught my dogs on it as well as a couple of deer. Whew!ReactReply - FR
FreeoutdoorsMay 5, 2020So if no one saw you but a trail cam. Is it really indecent exposure? Can you legally offend a camera that is placed in hiding? I am sorry you have to deal with this but also I am really curious to see how this turns out for you. Definitely take advantage of the AANR as this could set precedence for others.
I have often wondered about Trail cam and outdoor nudity. Good luck.
ReactReply - MEMemberOriginal PosterMay 6, 2020Thanks everyone for responding, Unfortunately, I think I may have been caught in a loophole specifically involving a national wildlife refuge. And again, just to be clear, it was a stupid move on my part to not think there would be cameras there in the first place. Here's the code on the ticket, as stated on the code of federal regulations website:27.83 Indecency and disorderly conduct. Any act of indecency or disorderly conduct as defined by State or local laws is prohibited on any national wildlife refuge.This is on a US District Court violation notice, and it was a federal officer. I would very much like to fight this, especially since it is a $500 fine, but there are two problems. First, I can't afford a lawyer for something like this right now. Second, I live in Florida. Florida is one of the very few states in which all records are public. According to the officer, if I pay the fine it will be done and this will never even reach the state, which means there will be no public record of it. If I fight it, it gets handed over to state courts and would be published with my name and all info. The lowlife tabloid type media prey on this kind of stuff and I'm 100% sure that simply having the word "nude" on a violation would be enough to throw up a red flag somewhere. The last thing I need is for it to go viral, with my name, that I was caught on camera naked in a wildlife refuge. So basically, I'm screwed and it's gonna cost me $500. Nobody to blame but myself, expensive lesson learned: ALWAYS scope out the area before going nude! This sucks, now I'm going to be super paranoid everywhere I go!ReactReply
- UR
UrsaMajorMay 7, 2020I feel badly about your situation. I'm not sure how much a consultation with an attorney would cost but it would be money well spent. The officer offering advice on pleading to the charge to make it go away is concerning to me. You have no way of knowing if he does not agree with his agency's policy to charge people under these circumstances and is genuinely sympathetic with your situation, or if he's just a jerk that would get perverse satisfaction making things worse for you. The good news is that since the maximum fine is $500 this charge is only a violation and not a misdemeanor. The Florida Sex Offender Registration law uses the language "Intentionally exposing the genitals in a lewd or lascivious manner in the presence of another person", so that should not be a potential consequence if you are convicted under this federal statute. You don't have to make a decision right away. The date to appear on the summons is not for a trial. At the first appearance you'll be asked if you understand the charges and how you want to plead. If you plead Not Guilty it does not mean you have to go to trial. That would give you more time to try to see an attorney and you can always change your plea later. One of the other posts mentions trying to get support from the AANR or one of the Florida naturist organizations. There's no way of knowing if you can get help unless you ask. All that involves is some phone calls and and time on your part. It might be worth the effort. If you can't get help from a lawyer you could always represent yourself at a trial. That's something you NEVER want to do in a criminal matter but people do it all the time when charged with a violation, like traffic tickets. The worst thing that could happen if you loose is you pay the $500 fine. You may be able to argue that your conduct did not violate the Florida law, so the Federal Stature does not apply. Take a look at the link below for a better explanation. I'm out of ideas right now but if I think of anything else I'll post it. Good luck, find a way to see a lawyer.
https://www.thehoffmanfirm.net/criminal-defense/sex-crimes/indecent-exposure/
ReactReply - URUrsaMajorMay 8, 2020
One more thing. If you decide to plead out to this case, you might consider asking the judge if you may enter a Nolo Condendere or No Contest plea. It will still result in a conviction of the charge but would not be considered an admission of guilt as if you had entered a guilty plea. With a guilty plea the judge will ask you why you are pleading guilty and you have to say you committed the crime. If you plead Nolo the judge will not ask you those questions. The federal offense is a violation, but it cites the local state law of Indecent Exposure which is a misdemeanor. So by pleading guilty to the federal offense you will be admitting you committed the state offense. A conviction under the state law might result in having to register as a sex offender. It's unlikely that the county or State of Florida would come after you for the state charge and more than likely it would be considered Double Jeopardy, but never underestimate an overzealous bureaucrat.
ReactReply - JO
JohnMay 8, 2020[quote]Contact AANR for legal help and advice. Of any state in the union, they're very influential in Florida.[/quote]
AANR is unlikely to be much help since they focus on landed clubs. Contact the NAC (Naturist Action Commitee) division of TNS (The Naturist Society). Find your closet rep at [url][link]https://www.truenudists.com/link/118923db11c6d5ac/aHR0cHM6Ly9uYXR1cmlzdGFjdGlvbi5vcmcvQXJlYV9SZXByZXNlbnRhdGl2ZXMvYXJlYV9yZXByZXNlbnRhdGl2ZXMuaHRtbA%3D%3D[/link]https://naturistaction.org/Area_Representatives/area_representatives.html[/url].
When I had similar issues ([url][link]https://www.truenudists.com/link/2e9a6f6cf2f2d6cd/aHR0cDovL29hb2EuaGF3YWlpLmdvdi9qdWQvMjI0ODlzZG8uaHRt[/link]https://oaoa.hawaii.gov/jud/22489sdo.htm[/url] & [url][link]https://www.truenudists.com/link/083688280f311738/aHR0cDovL29hb2EuaGF3YWlpLmdvdi9qdWQvMjI0NTcuaHRt[/link]https://oaoa.hawaii.gov/jud/22457.htm[/url]) they helped me find a competent lawyer and helped defray the costs.
John aka cobeacbumReactReply - NU
nudesuncplMay 10, 2020Get a lawyer! And ask this stupid "officer" who the heck it was that you were "exposing" yourself to! BTW, "officers" don't count, so don't let him talk you into that one. Tell him you want to see the federal statute that makes simple nudity illegal, and then you want to see the same thing for Florida! Hint: Years ago the Florida Supreme Court ruled that "nude is not lewd," so unless you were masturbating or doing something stupid, what you were don't was NOT illegal. Get a lawyer! He/she should be able to take care of this crap by a simple motion to dismiss.
ReactReply - NUnudesuncplMay 10, 2020
Get a lawyer! And ask this stupid "officer" who the heck it was that you were "exposing" yourself to! BTW, "officers" don't count, so don't let him talk you into that one. Tell him you want to see the federal statute that makes simple nudity illegal, and then you want to see the same thing for Florida! Hint: Years ago the Florida Supreme Court ruled that "nude is not lewd," so unless you were masturbating or doing something stupid, what you were don't was NOT illegal. Get a lawyer! He/she should be able to take care of this crap my a simple motion to dismiss.
ReactReply - PAPaulMay 11, 2020You wrote: [quote]Get a lawyer! ....[/quote] Perhaps you missed the part where the OP said he cannot afford a lawyer.ReactReply
- TD
Tom DMay 11, 2020[quote]You wrote: Get a lawyer! .... Perhaps you missed the part where the OP said he cannot afford a lawyer.[/quote] But as noted elsewhere, AANR or some more local similar group might be willing to help.ReactReply - JOJohnMay 11, 2020[quote]You wrote:Get a lawyer! ....Perhaps you missed the part where the OP said he cannot afford a lawyer.But as noted elsewhere, AANR or some more local similar group might be willing to help.[/quote]
Exactly. As I posted above, this is why NAC exists. They will review your case, advise, provide names of local lawyers who are educated on the issues, and defray if not completely cover the cost. The OP is already going to spend at least $500 on the fine, why not spend it on a lawyer? NAC will advise on probability of winning/losing based on the facts and what was actually charged, actual law, case law, etc. It doesn't hurt to get legitimate advice. They may also be able to get it reduced to something innocuous (a conservation charge with a $50 fine). The issuing officer is presenting things from his view (which may or may not be well informed, and may or may not be in the OPs best interest). In my case cited above two of the main factors in winning were no valid complainant who was "offended" and Hawaii case law that says the complainant cannot be the police themselves. Another was that the specific beach was well known for skinny dipping for decades, and the original cited complaint that the police used to raid the beach was more than a year old, and was for lewd activity, not simple nudity. I don't know what the law (written or case) is in Florida, but NAC will. Get legitimate advise from someone who can actually give legitimate advise before making any rash decisions.
John aka cobeachbumReactReply - MEMemberMay 15, 2020
If you do go to court, I would ask who is the victim? Anybody? A trail camera? The FWC officer? I don't believe either the camera or officer have "standing" in this case as it applies to a victim. Just a thought. Sorry to hear they are using game cameras to ticket nudists.
ReactReply - MEMemberOriginal PosterMay 22, 2020
Thanks everyone for the input and suggestions. As mentioned earlier I can't really afford a lawyer right now unless it costs less than the ticket. So I've reached out to AANR and will hope they have a solution that covers all of my concerns, before I just go ahead and pay the fine.
I do believe the officer was correct in saying that because this is a federal court ticket, it is not likely to make it onto my record as long as it is paid on time. I specifically asked if it would be on my record if I paid it, and he said typically it has to make it into state court before that happens.
I'll post again once I hear from AANR and make a final decision. Thanks again!
ReactReply