Swinging and TN — Rules for posting in here on True Nudists

MemberOriginal Poster

Jun 2, 2011

Recently, in another thread, the issue of swinging was brought up, specifically the position of swinging as being off-limits on the site. I became curious and looked into the Terms and Conditions of Truenudists (section 8), and I can find no reference to swinging as being outside the conditions of the site. Discussions of swinging per se, are therefore within site guidelines, provided that discussion doesn't become sexually explicit. While swinging is an activity, specifically for sexual purposes, and therefore one that has become a major issue for nudism, this site has not taken the position to ban its discussion, or its inclusion into profiles, or open admission to participation. Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing is up for discussion, as is Truenudists stand on the issue.

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NJ
njnudistjohn
Jun 2, 2011
[quote]That sounds like a willfully naïve read of the rules. What non-sexual discussion of swinging is there to be had, that wouldn't be easier somewhere where it was actually encouraged?[/quote] I have to agree. Discussing swinging seems to be intrinsically sexual.
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ME
Member
Jun 2, 2011
So the rules do not prohibit swingers from this site, only the sexually explicit discussions of swinging.
That is the written rule.
But some members of this site have consistently conducted witch hunts against these people, based on personal predjudices of what is right or wrong.
What ever happened to live and let live?
If members do not come up to your personal expectations, is it really fair for you to accost them, flag them, hound them, or condemn them?
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ME
MemberOriginal Poster
Jun 2, 2011
[quote]If it were necessary for the admin to specify the various sexual versions and perversions that are disallowed, the list would be substantial. The blanket prohibition against sexual content covers them all.[/quote] This is an interesting point, and practicality is certainly an issue. But I can find no such blanket prohibition in Terms and Conditions. The only reference to sexual content is if it is illegal, then it is not permissible on the site. The other problem with this interpretation is the problem that arises when an individual, on personal or religious beliefs, attacks from their idea of perversion. For example, some believe that homosexuality is a perversion and quote Leviticus as a reference. Yet the site clearly supports homosexual and bisexual members. I can see the argument that the swinger has the same rights. . For example this case: Enters Chat TREX: Good morning everyone, any gay men here want to chat? And this one: TREX2: Good morning everyone, any swingers here want to chat? Is there anything in the rules that support treating these two questions differently? There is nothing sexually explicit in either one. I don't know, what do you think?
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RI
Richard442
Jun 2, 2011
For every opportunity there is an opportunist trying to exploit it. Case in point.
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T=
Tom === Thomas S. Tierney
Jun 2, 2011
Big·ot·ry [big-uh-tree] plural -ries 1. stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own. 2. the actions, beliefs, prejudices, etc., of a bigot.[url=http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bigot][color=black] [/color][/url]
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PV
Paul Vogler
Jun 2, 2011
[quote][quote]Gayness is largely about being. Swinging is about doing. [/quote] I think you're on a very slippery slope with this statement. I'm not a proponent of Swinging, but I think that members of that group could claim that it's a variant of polyamory, and they might put forth the position that it's just as much a type of sexual orientation as Gay. [/quote] As NiMA stated correctly. there is a HUGE difference in that The Swinging Lifestyle is based on sexual acts. One can be gay, and still be a virgin. One cannot be a swinger and never have sex with other partners. It's like calling yourself a fisherman even though you never go fishing. So while people can claim anything they want, it doesn't make it true. As far as swingers being nudists, more power to 'em! Nudism is for people who like to be naked. It would be impossible to figure out people's motives for WHY they like to be naked, so as long as everyone behaves themselves in a socially acceptable way, we're all in the same naked boat! For all you know, the great people you hang out with at the resort/beach love to have sex with farm animals. As long as they behave, it really makes no difference.
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ME
MemberOriginal Poster
Jun 2, 2011
[quote]That TN recognizes a fundamental difference is evinced by the fact that at the moment there are 50 groups with "gay" in the titles and others that are related, whereas the only group with any variation of "swing" is one titled "Non-Swinging Nudists". New swinger groups are flagged and excised as they appear. [/quote] Excellent. Given the number of swingers on the site, this point cannot be refuted. So now we have permission to challenge anyone soliciting for swinging purposes. (apparently falling within 'administrative discretion' edict). But does this mean that everyone who volunteers they are swingers, are they soliciting? If so, then each such profile could be flagged and should be deleted. Since there are many such profiles, it suggests that this admission is permissable. So, how to treat the person who enters the chat and says, "Any swingers care to chat?"
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MA
mallardm45
Jun 2, 2011
Ok so lets all notify TT1 that it needs to be stated in the rule - no swinging members allowed that will put an end to this discussion. Swinging is all about a sexually driven lifestyle and as there are swingers that are nudist most nudist are not swingers. If your a nudist and a swinger then just state your here to befriend fellow nudist and keep your sexual preferances private and join those sites that allow and adhere to that lifestyle. Lets get off the gay discussion though as that will cause more harm than good.
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ME
MemberOriginal Poster
Jun 2, 2011
[quote]Hhahaha, this just cracks me up...[/quote] [quote]Polyamory (from Greek poly {meaning many or several} and Latin amor {love}) is the practice, desire, or acceptance of having more than one intimate relationship at a time with the knowledge and consent of everyone involved.[/quote]PolyamoryWhat exactly is "intimate" about random sex with anyone willing get naked and hop into bed? Swinging by definition violates the concept of intimate relationships. For those interested in this side bar, try Dictionary dot com and go to thesarus, type in "fornication". As we all know, fornication is the act of sex, and a synonym is intimacy. Another dictionary def can also be found elsewhere: itnimacy is a term used by police and lawyers for sex when they don't want to use that word.
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ME
MemberOriginal Poster
Jun 2, 2011
[quote][quote]But does this mean that everyone who volunteers they are swingers, are they soliciting?[/quote] That would require telepathy to know. However, given the humber of times that this subject has arisen, and the number of groups on that subject that have been deleted, one would assume that the person would be at least vaguely aware that the site admin has declared it to be an inappropriate topic. That would lead one to wonder what motivated the person to broach the subject. [quote]If so, then each such profile could be flagged and should be deleted. Since there are many such profiles, it suggests that this admission is permissable.[/quote] First, with well over 80,000 profiles and dozens more appearing each day, the admins would be hard pressed to keep up with the incoming, let alone to scan every profile on the site. IAC, there appears to be no evidence that the mere mention in a profile is taboo. [quote]Yes, I understand this point. Though in truth, tire of it. [/quote] [quote]So, how to treat the person who enters the chat and says, Any swingers care to chat?[/quote] The question would be, "Chat about what?" I don't think this is a necessary question to be asking. TN has said elsewhere that what goes on in private chats between consenting members is their affair so long as they do not broach the subject with someone not consenting. I will see if I can find this, but assume at this point that it is true.
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ME
MemberOriginal Poster
Jun 2, 2011
[quote]Perhaps you might want to consider the word in context rather than playing the pedant. Never argue with the WordMaster.[/quote] Hhahahhhahaa, uh huh I believe the context was, having more than one intimate relationship....having more than one sex relationship...yep..works pretty well, don't ya think? Damn, your just too much fun to argue with lolSorry.
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Paul Vogler
Jun 2, 2011
[quote]Ok so lets all notify TT1 that it needs to be stated in the rule - no swinging members allowed that will put an end to this discussion. Swinging is all about a sexually driven lifestyle and as there are swingers that are nudist most nudist are not swingers. If your a nudist and a swinger then just state your here to befriend fellow nudist and keep your sexual preferances private and join those sites that allow and adhere to that lifestyle. Lets get off the gay discussion though as that will cause more harm than good.[/quote] I"ll give you the benefit of the doubt that your hearts in the right place, but surely you can see the problem with banning members based on sexual preferences? As long as people adhere to the rules, they should be allowed here.
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PV
Paul Vogler
Jun 2, 2011
mea culpa
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BE
BeachLisa
Jun 2, 2011
[quote]Perhaps you might want to consider the word in context rather than playing the pedant. Never argue with the WordMaster.[/quote] Never argue with the WordMaster - I did not know Shakespeare had a profile here. What name is he using?
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ME
MemberOriginal Poster
Jun 2, 2011
I think a lot of people are missing what I am getting at. This thread was started because of another thread where someone got really upset with a person in the chat, discussing Swinging with another swinger, apparently. This led me to question whether or not we had the right to challenge swingers. Cleary, we have seen from NudeInMa, that we do. That is the first point.
.
The second question that I have, even if someone is discussing swinging, but it is not sexually explicit, should that be permissable? It would be nice to get a consensus on this, but I don't see the liklihood of that happening.
.
Ultimately though, I hope we can deal with this issue in a civil manor. If the person becomes difficult, then flag and leave it to administration. Thanks for your participation.
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SO
southernilnudeguy
Jun 2, 2011
[quote]I think a lot of people are missing what I am getting at. This thread was started because of another thread where someone got really upset with a person in the chat, discussing Swinging with another swinger, apparently. This led me to question whether or not we had the right to challenge swingers. Cleary, we have seen from NudeInMa, that we do. That is the first point. . The second question that I have, even if someone is discussing swinging, but it is not sexually explicit, should that be permissable? It would be nice to get a consensus on this, but I don't see the liklihood of that happening. . Ultimately though, I hope we can deal with this issue in a civil manor. If the person becomes difficult, then flag and leave it to administration. Thanks for your participation.[/quote] seriously, this is not the place for swingers, this is the place for honest hardworking people that don't wear clothes to come together. Don't fuck it up with stupid "weenie waggers"
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ME
MemberOriginal Poster
Jun 2, 2011
[quote][quote]I believe the context was, having more than one intimate relationship....having more than one sex relationship...yep..works pretty well, don't ya think?[/quote] Intimacy does not imply random fornication. BTW, is your intimacy with your SO strictly sexual?[/quote] Hehehehe...uh, yeah, a meaning of intimate means precisely that, fornication. And BTW, what eles are you suggesting I use that blow up doll for? Taking it out for dinner? Sipping wine by candlight, dancing to frnak sinatra...okay okay, sometimes we dance.
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ME
MemberOriginal Poster
Jun 2, 2011
[quote][quote][quote]I believe the context was, having more than one intimate relationship....having more than one sex relationship...yep..works pretty well, don't ya think?[/quote] Intimacy does not imply random fornication. BTW, is your intimacy with your SO strictly sexual?[/quote] Hehehehe...uh, yeah, a meaning of intimate means precisely that, fornication. And BTW, what eles are you suggesting I use that blow up doll for? Taking it out for dinner? Sipping wine by candlight, dancing to frank sinatra...okay okay, sometimes we dance.[/quote]
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BeachLisa
Jun 2, 2011
[quote][quote]Never argue with the WordMaster - I did not Shakespeare had a profile here. What name is he using?[/quote] My humility disallows my revealing the identity of the WordMaster. Indeed, of my many transcendentally wonderful traits, my humiity is the most awesome, doubly so because of the utter lack of need for it.[/quote] Thanks for not picking on my sentence that was missing a word Mr Hathaway. I have since edited it. You truly are awesome
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NJ
njnudistjohn
Jun 2, 2011
[quote][quote]Gayness is largely about being. Swinging is about doing. [/quote] I think you're on a very slippery slope with this statement. I'm not a proponent of Swinging, but I think that members of that group could claim that it's a variant of polyamory, and they might put forth the position that it's just as much a type of sexual orientation as Gay. As some have mentioned a number of times previously, TN seems to implicitly encourage some degree of sexual topics simply by providing members with the ability to label their sexual preferences in the profiles. As such, Swinging could be seen by some as a sexual preference and even a type of sexual orientation, closely similar to labeling one's self as Bisexual. What is different about it, which the author of this thread highlighted, is that there's a very heavy prejudice against Swinging by more philosophical Naturists. As others have pointed out before, this is likely because of risks associated with having nudism closely associated with Swinging -- it damages the position that nudism can be innocent of sexual intentions. It reminds me of a news story I read about how one of the nudist villages in France had such increases in sexual activity that the dedicated, "purist" nudists began to feel threatened, and they apparently burned down a few Swinging clubs to try to safeguard their lifestyles.[/quote] 1) I see a big distinction between swinging and sexual orientation. Either orientation can pursue monogomy or instead pursue sex with multiple people. My father's cousin is gay and has been with the same man from before I was born. 2) There are legitimate reasons for gays to want to talk to one another and hang out with one another other than to have sex. Just like men and women can hang out platonically so can gays. Gays will have more in common with one another and thus there is a reason why sexual orientation is out there beyond trying to hook up. A gay person might want to another to PM them because they feel like they would have more in common. However swingers by definition want to hook up with other swingers for sex. If they want to hang out platonically they are not swingers. 3) I don't care what people do in private if they want to swing that is up to them. However, this site is supposed to be for nudists not for swingers to find other swingers or to discuss swinging. Discussing past encounters and looking for new encounters in instrinsically sexual in nature and thus seems to violate the rules. Reminding people this is a nudist site not a swinger site should not result in punishment.
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NJ
njnudistjohn
Jun 2, 2011
[quote]Quote: I think a lot of people are missing what I am getting at. This thread was started because of another thread where someone got really upset with a person in the chat, discussing Swinging with another swinger, apparently. This led me to question whether or not we had the right to challenge swingers. Cleary, we have seen from NudeInMa, that we do. That is the first point"[/quote] [quote]Response: It is unclear whether we have the right to challenge swingers. I was booted from chat for saying, "This is a nudist site not a swinger site. It is just as wrong for women and couple profiles to make sexual advances on others as for men." Since swingers scare away some genuine nudists it seems to me this site should have a policy against allow swingers to solicit people. [/quote] [quote]Quote "The second question that I have, even if someone is discussing swinging, but it is not sexually explicit, should that be permissable? It would be nice to get a consensus on this, but I don't see the liklihood of that happening."[/quote] [quote]Response: Create a poll question and ask people to answer it if you simply seek opinions on that. My own personal opinion is that swinging is by definition sexual. If you want to meet only swingers and not people who enjoy only platonic nudism then I think that such peopel should find a swinger club or swinger website. If they are want people to hang out platonically and do swinging eslewhere with others then who cares, it need not even be brought up. Basically the only reason to tell people you are a swinger is to either discuss your escapades or to try to see if others are into it too thus trolling for other swingers. [/quote] [quote]quote: "Ultimately though, I hope we can deal with this issue in a civil manor. If the person becomes difficult, then flag and leave it to administration. Thanks for your participation." [/quote] Response: A clear rule from those who review flaggings on whether we should flag swingers or not would be nice.
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SO
southernilnudeguy
Jun 2, 2011
[quote][quote]Quote: I think a lot of people are missing what I am getting at. This thread was started because of another thread where someone got really upset with a person in the chat, discussing Swinging with another swinger, apparently. This led me to question whether or not we had the right to challenge swingers. Cleary, we have seen from NudeInMa, that we do. That is the first point"[/quote] [quote]Response: It is unclear whether we have the right to challenge swingers. I was booted from chat for saying, "This is a nudist site not a swinger site. It is just as wrong for women and couple profiles to make sexual advances on others as for men." Since swingers scare away some genuine nudists it seems to me this site should have a policy against allow swingers to solicit people. [/quote] [quote]Quote "The second question that I have, even if someone is discussing swinging, but it is not sexually explicit, should that be permissable? It would be nice to get a consensus on this, but I don't see the liklihood of that happening."[/quote] [quote]Create a poll question and ask people to answer it if you simply seek opinions on that. My own personal opinion is that swinging is by definition sexual. If you want to meet only swingers and not people who enjoy only platonic nudism then I think that such peopel should find a swinger club or swinger website. If they are want people to hang out platonically and do swinging eslewhere with others then who cares, it need not even be brought up. Basically the only reason to tell people you are a swinger is to either discuss your escapades or to try to see if others are into it too thus trolling for other swingers. [/quote] [quote]quote: "Ultimately though, I hope we can deal with this issue in a civil manor. If the person becomes difficult, then flag and leave it to administration. Thanks for your participation." [/quote] A clear rule from those who review flaggings on whether we should flag swingers or not would be nice. [/quote] swingers do not belong here, nude normal people belong here.
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NJ
njnudistjohn
Jun 2, 2011
The quote feature on here is killing me. I cannot get it to work right so please excuse the fact that some of my responses are in gray instead of white like they should be.
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NJ
njnudistjohn
Jun 2, 2011
[quote][quote][/quote]swingers do not belong here, nude normal people belong here.[/quote] The only workable policy would be a don't ask don't tell type of policy. If a swinger and you disclose in order to either brag about past encoutners or try to arrange sexual encounters those should be violations which can get you booted both from chat and from the site. If a swinger and ALSO a genuine nudist who enjoys platonic nudism then I see no problem with them being here so long as they keep quiet about their swinging only chat about nudism/ seek platonic nudist encounters. That way they will not scare anyone away from this site who is genuinely interested in nudism. The name true nudists seems to have an intended purpose which is defeated by swingers looking for sexual encounters.
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