The Constitution, The Second Amendment and BHO

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• FF

  

  FF32404

  Jan 28, 2013

  [quote]"Cars have a purpose of transportation yes, but they can be used to assault people!  IF someone abuses the use of them or uses them in a criminal manner, say to drive into a crowd of people, is that car an assault weapon or is it still just transporting the driver from point A to Point B via a crowd of people?"
  
  
  A banana could be used to assault people. However like a car it was not designed to kill people. That is the distinction. Guns are weapons and only weapons. Use as weapon is their sole reason for existence. Cars and bananas have other uses. Only misuse of them can kill. [/quote]So there are 300 million firearms and approximately 80 million gun owners in the US alone so every one of them and every cop who carries one are carrying one on them with the only purpose to kill people?  IF that is their only purpose then why aren't their millions of killings?  Your argument doesn't hold water!  You are right though, if someone hits you with a banana, it is now an assault weapon, hope it's not frozen, it might hurt a bit!

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• SO

  

  Soupie

  Jan 28, 2013

  talk about lies!  I love how the gun nuts say "just enforce the current laws that exist."  That's the job of the ATF.  But the NRA has spent a lot of time and money to deliberately thwart and impede the ATF from seizing illegal firearms.

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• FF

  

  FF32404

  Jan 29, 2013

  Logic and Common sense are completely lost on too many people!  They speak with confidence on subjects they know nothing about, they quote left wing talking points which have no basis in fact whatsoever and people like this are running our governments!  It's bad enough that people are ignorant, but when they get into positions of authority, a country gets destroyed!

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• SO

  

  Soupie

  Jan 29, 2013

  "It's bad enough that people are ignorant, but when they get into positions of authority, a country gets destroyed!"
  Didn't that already happen under George Bush?
  

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• MA

  

  ManOfWicklow

  Jan 29, 2013

  [img src="http://cegrayson.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/funny-pictures-cat-has-big-guns.jpg?w=645">

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• FF

  

  FF32404

  Jan 29, 2013

  [quote]"Logic and Common sense are completely lost on too many people!  They speak with confidence on subjects they know nothing about, they quote left wing talking points which have no basis in fact whatsoever and people like this are running our governments!  It's bad enough that people are ignorant, but when they get into positions of authority, a country gets destroyed! "
  
  Ahh conspiracy theory logic. Gotta love it.
  
  So you never did answer why isn't a handgun big enough and powerful enough? Why do you need to arm yourself with something which would make an African Warlord proud?[/quote]Sam, my comment was because after all the explaining I have done, NIM has done, you still claim I haven't answered it!  Once again, I will say that you are listening to everyone who knows nothing about guns and not asking experts about firearms on what they are truly designed for!  Ask the lady in GA if her handgun was big enough!  She emptied the 6 shot revolver, 5 of which hit the perpetrator and he still got up and went to his car.  If he had gotten up and continued the attack she and her children could have been dead because she ran out of bullets!  People who own firearms for self defense (And YES protection from Tyranny) own them based on the situation at hand.  Any expert on firearms will say that a handgun is NOT a suitable firearm for home defense if a Shotgun or Rifle is available!  It's a last resort, and/or good for areas where concealed carry is necessary!  Cops only carry handguns because their rifles and shotguns are too bulky to carry around 100% of the time but when there is a big incident/active shooter/or potential active shooter, they grab the rifle!  Our own Dept. of Homeland Security has classified the Modern Sporting Rifle (AR-15 type) as a very good personal defense weapon!  (I posted the link on that too but you must have ignored it because it's proof)  And your African Warlord comment still demonstrates your lack of knowledge of the firearms you are referring to!  If you were looking at a single cartridge for every available rifle caliber, you'd probably choose the largest one as the AR-15 cartridge because the media and corrupt politicians keep telling us these are terrible destructive, big bullets!
  I've said it in earlier posts, most defensive situations with firearms by law abiding citizens end without a shot even being fired, but people usually choose their firearm(s) for defense based on the worst case scenario much like fire codes require fire detection, fire suppression and other fire protection equipment the same way! It's just the way it is, if you can't accept that answer, then so bet it! If you don't like guns, don't buy one!  But you, cannot dictate how other people choose to exercise a right!

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• FF

  

  FF32404

  Jan 30, 2013

  [quote]"But you, cannot dictate how other people choose to exercise a right!"
  
  It is interesting that you should finish with that- given that you are dictating how guns should be controlled under your chosen interpretation of the Second Amendment and not that of a democratically elected government. It still seems that you belong to the 'bigger the better' club. So I guess you'll carry on dancing to the tune of NRA propaganda.Have fun. [/quote]Sam, You need to explain to me what part of the "Tune" of the NRA is propaganda?  The left in the US loves to embrace the ACLU which I still have yet to see them support the 2nd Amendment leading me to believe that they should rename themselves "ASCLU Americans for Selective Civil Liberties Union"  It is worth noting that the entire Bill of Rights are NOT government granted rights but Amendments to the Constitution that re-affirm rights!  Rights cannot be created by any government, they are unalienable, "Endowed by our Creator", already possessed and only the people who possess them can give them up through choice or by abusing them.   Can you at least agree with that?  You can't in one breath say someone has the freedom to practice any religion, freedom of speech, Freedom of the Press but get to the 2nd Amendment and say "Whoa dude, that gun in your hands is dangerous and you can't be trusted with it" Even though with every right comes great responsibility, yes even the right to free speech!  Anyone abusing any right, is essentially giving up that right, because "Freedom is NOT Free!"    If any government decides what rights people can possess, we are no longer a free nation and that is a form of tyranny!  Like it or not, the left of this country is protected by the 2nd Amendment even if they don't own firearms because in a Free Nation the government which derives it's authority from the governed should always Fear the People, The People should never need to fear the government!
  i Still have hope for you to at least come to grips with this fact, even though someone else will probably bring GW Bush into the argument again somehow!

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• FF

  

  FF32404

  Jan 30, 2013

  [quote]"You can't in one breath say someone has the freedom to practice any religion, freedom of speech, Freedom of the Press but get to the 2nd Amendment and say "Whoa dude, that gun in your hands is dangerous and you can't be trusted with it" Even though with every right comes great responsibility, yes even the right to free speech!"
  
  Yes freedom. And a democracy works by a majority making decisions. The discussions at the moment are about reform and control and considering what is and isn't appropriate in a modern 'civil' society. They are not seeking to take away all of your weapons.
  
  If your country is that free then why is it illegal to use heroin is prostitution still illegal where you live? Did your government not make decisions about what was and what wasn't appropriate?[/quote]You are getting close sam but you are straying with the comments about heroin and Prostitution!  Lets stick to the gun issue because the other items are not specifically covered in the Constitution and are always up for debate!
  Can you prove that they are not seeking to take away all of our firearms?  Many of the very politicians who are proposing this current round of "Reforms and Controls" have said in the past that if they could get away with it, they would repeal the 2nd Amendment entirely, and ban ALL guns!  Diane Feinstein and I quote "If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States, for an outright ban, picking up everyone of them (every gun) Mr. and Mrs. America, turn ‘em all in. I would have done it.”
  Barack Obama: "I don’t believe people should be able to own guns.’” Prior to his Political career being started
  Read more athttp://www.wnd.com/2012/07/obama-people-shouldnt-be-allowed-to-own-guns/#mPcES8ZCeqUEuJez.99
  They are two big ones with big influence wouldn't you say?
  We can sit there and argue all day long on which ones in political power in the US are for a total ban, or just a few or whatever, but historically speaking, they chip away at the stone because they know they would not have support for an outright ban.  But now it's "Assault Weapons", next is handguns, then shotguns, yada yada yada!  The government can't even enforce the 20,000 or so gun laws on the books now that are not stopping these crimes, why make more?  To make people feel like they are doing something?  I remember Bill Clinton when he was president crediting the Brady Law for stopping 70,000 felons from trying to buy firearms but what he didn't tell anyone is that only 1 person was arrested for trying to purchase a gun illegally!  A Felon going into a gun store to attempt to purchase a firearm results in that person breaking multiple laws all of which have minimum mandatory sentencing! Possession of a firearm by a felon, attempting to purchase a firearm by a felon, etc. yet it's not being enforced!  And people wonder why gun owners take a No Compromise Stance on the 2nd Amendment?  It's because the proposed law will have NO effect on stopping the acts they are intended on, but will have an effect on everyone who didn't commit the acts nor ever intends on committing these acts!
  As for what is and isn't appropriate in modern society, the AR-15 is not only the most popular sporting rifle in the US (probably the world) right now, but given the original intent and purpose of the 2nd Amendment, it is most relevant to "the security of a free state" and is be more important and relevant than every before!  The very people who are now dictating to US the appropriateness of these firearms are the very people who would use these same weapons against US under tyranny!

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• SO

  

  Soupie

  Jan 30, 2013

  So why does the NRA work against the ATF in enforcing the laws in so many ways?
  http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/atf-obama-gun-reform-control-alcohol-tobacco-firearms
  

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• FF

  

  FF32404

  Jan 30, 2013

  [quote]So why does the NRA work against the ATF in enforcing the laws in so many ways?
  http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/atf-obama-gun-reform-control-alcohol-tobacco-firearms
  [/quote]Soupie, Nice Try!  It would be cool if the NRA had that much power but I've got news for you, any clout the NRA has is because of it's membership base!  After reading the article, I'd have to almost believe that you fully support the "Fast and Furious" scandal as a good idea!  I guess the ATF has no leaders and they gave thousands of US Made Rifles illegally to the Drug Cartels without Eric Holder's authorization nor Obama's knowledge right?  Actually they are not leaderless, and Obama and Holder are knee deep in the "Fast and Furious" poop otherwise Obama would not have been able to claim "Executive Privilege"  So the blood of thousands of Mexican citizens, two border patrol agents, and the 4 dead of Benghazi are all on his hands!  So this illegal arms dealer in the white house gives weapons to the drug cartels used to kill thousands, but law abiding citizens in the US can't be trusted with them to protect themselves and the state?  Right!
  Next thing you are going to tell me is that Piers Morgan is a firearms expert!

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• SO

  

  Soupie

  Jan 30, 2013

  Nice try.  Don't act like you're concerned about the "spilled blood" of anyone.  That's not your primary concern is it?

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• RE

  

  renebbare

  Jan 31, 2013

  Can I ask why so many in the USA feel they need to have a gun? Has crime escalated to such a level? Is it so unsafe for 'me/us' as a tourist?

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• BA

  

  babyseal

  Jan 31, 2013

  Here in Australia we have tough firearm laws. It seems to work here as our death rate due to guns per capita is about 1/20th of USA

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• RA

  

  ravensflyinnow

  Jan 31, 2013

  [quote]Can I ask why so many in the USA feel they need to have a gun? Has crime escalated to such a level? Is it so unsafe for 'me/us' as a tourist?[/quote]Because it's our right...it's in our Constitution. Therefore we will have as much fire power as we can afford...and anybody who disagrees... is just UN American!!  You can have my guns when you pry them out of my cold stiff dead hands!!!  (I was probably shot by someone or myself)
  

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• SO

  

  Soupie

  Jan 31, 2013

  Gasman, you say that you "believe" in the constitution.  Do you believe that it can be amended?  Or would you be happier if slavery still existed?

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• CH

  

  Christopher

  Jan 31, 2013

  [quote]Gasman, you say that you "believe" in the constitution.  Do you believe that it can be amended?  Or would you be happier if slavery still existed?[/quote]I have been trying to get him to answer this question for weeks. Either he accepts the amendments - but that infers that the Constitution is not infallible which would force him to face his worldview in the mirror. Or, he supports enslavement since it was blessed by the sacred original Constitution.

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• DE

  

  DesertRatOriginal Poster

  Jan 31, 2013

  [quote]
  
  Can I ask why so many in the USA feel they need to have a gun? Has crime escalated to such a level? Is it so unsafe for 'me/us' as a tourist?[/quote]
  
  For those who study the Constitution it is important to read The Federalist Papers. These are the writings and thoughts of the framers of the Constitution and what was their intent for each article. They were breaking away from a very tryannical type of government and they wanted to make sure that this did not happen again. They therefore wanted the people to be able to defend themselves against a dictatorial overthrow BY THE GOVERNMENT. This is, in a nut shell, the reason behind the Second Amendment.
  
  If you look back over history you'll see many examples where a despot comes into power, by what ever means, and one of the first orders of business is to disarm the populace. You can find many examples of this at jpfo.org .
  
  As to your basic question. There are some places in the USA that are very unsafe, especially at night. It's interesting that some of these same places have the strictest gun control laws in the nation. Yes, you are very safe in America but just don't do anything stupid.

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• SO

  

  Soupie

  Jan 31, 2013

  that means don't walk alone after dark, don't knock on a door, don't ask for help or address strangers.  Because you may be shot and the shooter will not be arrested.

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• SO

  

  Soupie

  Jan 31, 2013

  So in 1999, Wayne LaPierre, representing the NRA, said that the organization supported background checks for every gun purchaser, including gun show buyers.  Now he says that they are useless and don't work.  While 93% of the NRA membership still favours it.  So he is he speaking for?  The gun manufacturers who pay him so much?

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  Soupie

  Feb 1, 2013

  I believe that's a classic tactic of the far right.  Like someone saying that Obama wants to take everyone's gun away.

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• MA

  

  ManOfWicklow

  Feb 1, 2013

  [quote]Like someone saying that Obama wants to take everyone's gun away.  [/quote]Well he's taken their brains away.

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• RA

  

  ravensflyinnow

  Feb 1, 2013

  [quote]Reality time, kids: no one is interested in your opinions on guns in the US. Let that reality sink in, and we'll all just get along.
  [/quote]Real reality time, NiMA:Please don't think you speak for the majority of Americans
  

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• T=

  

  Tom === Thomas S. Tierney

  Feb 2, 2013

  Isn"t the one you have big enough?
  
  No complaints yet, so the answer is,YES.
  

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• MA

  

  ManOfWicklow

  Feb 2, 2013

  It's not the size that matters, but how it is used.

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