Performative disgust with the naked male body — The Mens Room on True Nudists

MemberOriginal Poster

Dec 15, 2020

I've been thinking about the reasons men have become less comfortable in non sexual nude settings and I think it is partly driven by homophobia and a trend towards setting an expectation for young men that they need to act disgusted at the sight of another naked guy. A conditioned reaction to communicate their heterosexuality. I wonder if this keeps men from even wanting to experience mixed gender non sexual nudity. Also, now that the younger generation seems much less concerned with sexual labels maybe the tide will turn and we will see the re-emergence of more casual attitudes about nudity. Interested in others' thoughts on this. Thanks!

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StevieLorna
Dec 15, 2020
What sources are you getting your information from?
Its not been my experience.
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ME
MemberOriginal Poster
Dec 15, 2020
Personal observation and examples from popular culture.
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Gordy57
Dec 15, 2020
[quote]What sources are you getting your information from? Its not been my experience.[/quote] It has been mentioned here thousands of times, about the cultural differences between the US and GB. I have no doubt that is a contributing factor in what he is seeing.
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John
Dec 15, 2020
ClothesfreeMatt wrote: [quote]I've been thinking about the reasons men have become less comfortable in non sexual nude settings and I think it is partly driven by homophobia and a trend towards setting an expectation for young men that they need to act disgusted at the sight of another naked guy. A conditioned reaction to communicate their heterosexuality. I wonder if this keeps men from even wanting to experience mixed gender non sexual nudity. Also, now that the younger generation seems much less concerned with sexual labels maybe the tide will turn and we will see the re-emergence of more casual attitudes about nudity. Interested in others' thoughts on this. Thanks![/quote] I think you may have a point there. I remember incidents in my college dorm shower room where some guys seemed to go out of their way to emphasize their masculinity and heterosexuality, perhaps (as you say) as a defense against being hit on by other men. I wonder if it matters that you, as a gay guy who maybe hadn't decided to come out yet, might have taken these remarks as accusations or potential threats of being outed. Or consider a guy who had been taught that homosexuality is bad and evil and disgusting. He suddenly sees another naked guy for the first time and ... isn't disgusted, but actually turned on a little. So he's confronting something in himself that he doesn't like, and is trying his best to suppress it, and to convince others that he's really straight as an arrow. But now that gender roles are more fluid, maybe we will see a turn of that tide. I hope so. It would have been far healthier if some of the guys in my dorm just came out and said, "Yeah, I'm gay. But frankly, you're not my type, so relax." (And If they said that I am their type, I could say with equal confidence "Thanks, but you're not my type." And that would be that.) In a way, that's what we all need to adjust to we're introduced to when we're introduced to heterosexual nudism. When a person sees a person of the opposite sex naked outside the context of a sexual situation, it's a new experience for that person. We get turned on, and we know that it's not appropriate to be turned on, but it takes a little while for us to get desensitized to the sight of a nude body. Just like being naked in the shower in a college dorm or gym. That's the price we pay for living in a society where the only social nudity that's permitted is what we experience when we're going to have sex. It's burned into our brains from the moment we start wearing clothes, and reinforced by what we see in the media.
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Stone Andy
Dec 15, 2020
[quote]I've been thinking about the reasons men have become less comfortable in non sexual nude settings and I think it is partly driven by homophobia and a trend towards setting an expectation for young men that they need to act disgusted at the sight of another naked guy. A conditioned reaction to communicate their heterosexuality. [/quote I'm not sure if men, younger men in particular, are less comfortable with nudity or if they interpret it differently than older generations. Rather than speak of nudity, I will specify exposed penises, and offer that they are considered solely sexual by younger men, whether awkwardly or not. Pre-Covid I was in the men's locker room of a nice fitness gym in Chicago with a friend who was a member there. Having lived nearby, I was aware of the local gay demographics, and wasn't surprised that my friend pointed out one members there as a gay porn star. Rather than a 70s porn stach, this guy was all-American clean cut handsome, a grandma's dream, as were his friends, and they all looked proper and modest with large tight towels wrapped snugly around them in the steam room. I asked other locals about this and was told that he and other hunk-types don't do public nudity since they expose themselves only for sex and money. In comparison, my friend and I were the naked old dudes who could care less. Regardless of our orientation or interest, they would not cast their pearls to us swine.
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robtirol
Dec 15, 2020
Don't wonder about that : religions and national-- conservative politicians like Kocinsky in Poland, Orban in Hungary, Putin in Russia and Trumpigan with his "moral majority" of skinhead Ed weapon fans show the way!
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ME
MemberOriginal Poster
Dec 15, 2020
Thanks for the responses, I'm not even talking about guys being comfortable being naked, but rather a popular notion in the US at least that the proper reaction for a man who sees another man naked is to be "grossed out". I think it is driven a bit by the desire to quell any notion about being gay, but maybe that's getting to be less of a factor.

Seems to me that the proper reaction is to be apathetic to seeing a naked body outside of a sexual situation.
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Jorgi
Dec 15, 2020
I think the world has been sexualised so much, and nudity is equated with sex, that people think they will be hit on if naked. Women seem to be more comfortable with seeing each other naked, though media in bad in promoting the so called perfect body. All people need to be more accepting of their, and other people's, bodies.
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Stone Andy
Dec 15, 2020
[quote]It's weird, with this new generation they're all liberal and gender fluid and sexually ambiguous and when it comes to male nudity... They're just as judgy and weird and shaming. [/quote] [quote]Seems to me that the proper reaction is to be apathetic to seeing a naked body outside of a sexual situation. [/quote] [quote]I think the world has been sexualised so much, and nudity is equated with sex, that people think they will be hit on if naked. Women seem to be more comfortable with seeing each other naked, though media in bad in promoting the so called perfect body. All people need to be more accepting of their, and other people's, bodies. [/quote] Theres an impressive amount of wisdom in this thread! I remember a few years ago stepping into an Abercrombie Fitch store where the clothes were barely lit but the huge murals of half-naked young men with perfect abs were the focus. Men have become just as objectified and shamed - as women. Our real enemy to fear goes back to fear itself.
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ME
Member
Dec 15, 2020
Nor mine, and infact I have read about the increase in new memberships at nudist resorts were some resorts are expanding with new campgrounds and cosrtruction of housing to accomodate the sudden intrest of people looking to shed clothes and masks to regain some sort of public interaction.
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John
Dec 16, 2020
Taller wrote:

[quote]But, as a gay man, you're MUCH MUCH more aware of these things in the world around you. Because it's all the little signals you have to tune into to know who is safe, who's a potential lover, who might kill you... you know... the important things.[/quote]

Which, it seems to me, describes the situation of women everywhere. I remember a discussion somewhere where a guy was complaining because he was approached by another man who seemed to be hitting on him, and he was freaked. A response came from a woman: "Welcome to my world." She went on to say that she herself entered that world when she started developing breasts. Suddenly, it seemed that somebody had given all men license to stare at her and try to hit on her. What made the situation worse was that she was a small woman, so the threat of assault was amplified by that. So she developed a sense of reading the little signals that you spoke of that let her know when she was in danger.
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ME
Member
Dec 16, 2020
Definitely exposure and desensitization to the sight of other naked men is a big factor in determining reactions in males. I have a bunch of military buddies from all different divisions of the armed forces who are more open to the sight of another naked male and openly joking about male anatomy. They are all hedero to the best of my knowledge, but are not above dropping trousers to get a rise out of someone or insight a good laugh. There are also some friends who have had more sheltered lives who turn there head at even the thought of knowing what was about to happen to avoid seeing something, but remaining respectful. It is an acquired taste of humor developed by some. Exposure is just a fundamental key to helping and cultivating a more healthy outlook to the image of a naked male to others. That is why high schools enforce mandatory showering in gym classes, not just for hygienic reasons
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ME
MemberOriginal Poster
Dec 16, 2020
The nude male form being treated as a joke is a whole other issue.
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Swimdoc
Dec 24, 2020
Your observation matches my experience well. I work with a broad spectrum of people of different ages and cultures. There is a strong reflex to demonstrate that a man is straight by expressing discomfort at even no sexual nudity. I dont want to see your junk!
It is common even in LGBT youth, I speculate that this is because they did not grow up skinny dipping and nude in lockerrooms like my generation did. They play video games in their rooms. They have been saturated by sexualized nudity in porn etc. with very unrealistic norms as to body shapes and sizes. They express their anxiety by body shaming or nude shaming others.
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John
Dec 24, 2020
Yup. There's that ole "nudity=sex" thing again. When the only nudity you're exposed to is designed to provoke "impure thoughts" (as we Catholics used to call it), then nudity is going to arouse you as reliably as Pavlov made his dogs salivate at the sound of a bell.
The cure for this is more exposure to nudity, not less, IMO.
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StevieLorna
Dec 24, 2020
I cant remember the number of times (its a lot) I(we) have has social naturist conversations where someone will say something like......you know its amazing that this is so normal I totally forgot Im naked.
Its a joyous moment....
...and something people who think being naked is always about sex will never experience.
I find that rather sad.
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John
Dec 25, 2020
StevieLorna wrote:[quote]I cant remember the number of times (its a lot) I(we) have has social naturist conversations where someone will say something like......you know its amazing that this is so normal I totally forgot Im naked. Its a joyous moment.... ...and something people who think being naked is always about sex will never experience. I find that rather sad.[/quote] I agree 100% with what you said. But I think that people who think that nudity is never about sex are almost always children who haven't achieved puberty or older people who have lost interest in sex. The rest of us are doomed. The joyous moment comes when we find that we can lay that mindset aside for a little while, and examine the world through a different and better lens. I have found that the joyous moments are the ones that are different from less joyful moments. A good meal is a joyous moment after a period of fasting. Listening to a symphony is a joyous moment after a week of nothing but traffic noise and telephone conversations. I might even suggest that joy disappears in an environment which is perfect in every way, because those joyous moments stand out from the rest of our humdrum world.
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Stone Andy
Dec 26, 2020
[quote]I cant remember the number of times (its a lot) I(we) have has social naturist conversations where someone will say something like......you know its amazing that this is so normal I totally forgot Im naked.Its a joyous moment.......and something people who think being naked is always about sex will never experience.[/quote]

This to me is what healthy nudism is all about, something to strive for. It's not that nudity ALWAYS equals sex. Nor is it about nudity NEVER being sexual. It's about normalizing nakedness so that the naked male body just is, not the sense it's performing. For that reason, I prefer the word naked (without clothes) than nude (clothing removed).

If we were rational about nudity, we should equate it with taking a shower. Even a man with a strong libido would be quite stinky if he had fewer showers than sex. Nudity equals showers would lead to male performance anxiety over how he rubs his soap bars and TN would have a large suds support group. Sex on the other hand would be coincidenta, and the world would be a cleaner and more comfortable place.
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Cruzey
Dec 27, 2020
Yes. There is conditioning by parents, peers and society working either in harmony or at variance with personal perceptions, feelings, curiosity and natural attraction.
There are also straight people who would act or act horrified at the sight of a naked person of the opposite gender, because that was the right response conditioned, required to avoid sending a message or expected by those around for whom you had concern, respect or fear.
Also there is mere curiosity, comparison and genuine interest. You could be amazed, empathetic, have found a person with similar life experience, or not yet fully socialised to naked bodies. Or perhaps you have never seen a naked human - imagine that. It would be like an alien experience!
It would indeed be wonderful if you could casually say you find someone attractive, ask their sexual orientation and relationship status and then simply ask if they would like to date. All with no innuendo or shunning. The response needs to be as casual and polite as the question!
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Cruzey
Dec 27, 2020
Marketing uses any human response to SELL.
Fear, horror, loss, empathy, pretentiousness, many others and of course sexual attraction.
They hire psychologists and do trials to leverage human response for profit. Many of the products they sell also leverage chemistry and illusion to move a fake product far removed from the image created and manufactured for maximum profit.
Women have been exploited by visual media because men have a strong visual response. On the other hand, men are exploited in literature because woman have a stronger emotional response.
Now with facespook exploiting your every post, you should see more of adverts that elicit a response from your personality, interests, age, income, location, status, job, etc. so the adverts that dont work on your ilk will be hidden. That is not to say your enjoy, agree with, or want to see those adverts. Just that they work on your type!!
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John
Dec 27, 2020
cruzey wrote: [quote] Now with facespook exploiting your every post, you should see more of adverts that elicit a response from your personality, interests, age, income, location, status, job, etc. so the adverts that dont work on your ilk will be hidden. That is not to say your enjoy, agree with, or want to see those adverts. Just that they work on your type!![/quote] IMO, that is exactly what's wrong with social media like Facebook. More than any other medium, they let you seal yourself inside a bubble where everything reflects your present interests. That's why I make it a point never to click on anything advertised there. (Not that it does any good ... they seem to find out anyway.) The only cure I see is to seek out other sources for social contact that don't have that filtering mechanism. That usually involves personal physical contact, which ain't happening much these days what with COVID. But we have to work on that when the pandemic is over.
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nudeyooper
Dec 28, 2020
Another annoyance is just after making a purchase, being undated with ads for competing products, similar ones, or the "people who bought this, also bought this." To me it is wasted effort. I already bought what I wanted or needed.
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John
Dec 28, 2020
Getting back to the topic, it's occurred to me that almost all of the put-downs that males have made regarding another male's nudity and body are made by boys who are just coming into puberty and are dealing with the changes of their own bodies. They see other boys who are at a different stage of development and are insecure about their own bodies. So their attempt to shame their comrades is a way of avoiding having to deal with their own insecurity. In other words, they're boys being boys, displaying all the immaturity that boys exhibit at that age.
Compare it to a kid who rags on another kid because he stutters, or he can't catch a ball, or he wears weird clothes. He's showing a lack of empathy. And, unless it's corrected by an adult or a respected peer, that kid is liable to carry that attitude into adulthood.
The cure, as I see it, is to have kids be naked in front of other kids under adult supervision. The adults can call them out on immature behavior when it first crops up, and reassure the other kids that such "out of line" behavior just marks the kid as immature.
In my own experience, the only serious kidding I got regarding my body was in high school. By the time I got to college, that sort of behavior disappeared, and men could be naked in locker rooms or dorm rooms or showers without anybody remarking on it at all. I think that's because they all went through the same sort of acculturation process that I did, and had outgrown any tendencies to rag on other guys by that time. Could it be that because kids today don't have that experience of seeing each other naked as they grow up, the behavior is seen more in young adult men today?
I'd like to hear from somebody who was raised in a nudist environment with other kids from childhood.
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Pete
Dec 30, 2020
Fritobandito (and the rest), I agree with you. Especially your first sentance. The millenials of today are afraid to be seen naked in a gym or wet area of a locker room so they shower with their towels wrapped around them or wearing their underwear ( I just shake my head at the ridiculousness of that thinking), yet THEY are the generation that has had access to any porn when their parents buy them their first phone when they're 11 and they're the ones who send dick pics to the girlfriends and other friends and as a rule don't seem to care that much when they're shared around to others , or they do helicoptors with their dicks at parties in mixed company and everyone thinks its so fun and hysterical - yet THEY can't shower in the nude at the Y. The hypocrisy of it all. (eye roll.... )
I wish there were enough 20s guys on this site to give some honest feedback about whats behind all this. I've talked briefly to a couple guys in their 20s in a sauna etc and I've heard a combination of several different things. I don't know what to believe though and I haven't talked with enough young men about to come up with a "scientific study" group lol.
I would LOVE to own a gym and make showering nude and sitting in the sauna on a towel nude, a mandate. I don't live in an area that has one of those Korean spas where everyone is expected to be naked.
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