Performative disgust with the naked male body

Replies

• CY

  

  CoR YYC

  Dec 30, 2020

  We do have hard data on this. Biggest single influence: creepy old men.
  
  People love nudity, especially amongst peers. They just don't want to be naked around creepy old men. Our local group experiences this directly. Participation, especially of younger and female members, increases when they are assured of the absence of creepy old men. You can make valid points up one side and down the other, but it is a solid fact that our numbers go up when the numbers of creepy old men go down.
  
  The natural question that needs to be answered is, "what do younger people consider creepy, given they have no problem getting naked on Insta, Snap, et.al?" This is a valid question, given most people who are being creepy are unaware they are perceived as such.
  
  Again, we do have hard data on this. Creepy is dependent on where the autonomy line is drawn. Drawing autonomy away from someone is creepy.
  
  (edited for clarity)
  Saying, "I don't know what to believe," in response to someone draws the autonomy line away from them. They are literally saying how they see things, and their words are being ignored. They won't argue, they will simply gather where their words are respected, and they have.
  
  Making nudity mandatory moves the autonomy line away from the person in question. Nobody owes anyone a look at their body. They can't ask people to look away, but they like likewise can't be required to strip for anyone.
  
  This may contradict what a lot of people hold true, so here is an olive branch for anyone who feels they don't need to change: nobody needs to change. The world is a big place, and there are lots of different people and ways to do things. People with similar values tend to attract each other. People need to change only when they want their circumstances to change.
  
  MapJock wrote:
  [quote]The hypocrisy of it all. (eye roll.... )I wish there were enough 20s guys on this site to give some honest feedback about whats behind all this. I've talked briefly to a couple guys in their 20s in a sauna etc and I've heard a combination of several different things. I don't know what to believe though and I haven't talked with enough young men about to come up with a "scientific study" group lol.I would LOVE to own a gym and make showering nude and sitting in the sauna on a towel nude, a mandate. I don't live in an area that has one of those Korean spas where everyone is expected to be naked.[/quote]

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• NA

  

  nakedcamperfl

  Dec 30, 2020

  Much of the problem today, especially with the younger generations, is the digital world. Many have communicated early on virtually and don't know how to socialize beyond that.

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• JO

  

  John

  Dec 30, 2020

  CoRYYC wrote: [quote]We do have hard data on this. Biggest single influence: creepy old men.[/quote] I'd like to see that source for that "hard data." In particular, I'd like to see how they define "creepy." Since I'm over seventy and not in the company of my wife, am I doomed to be creepy? Does that mean that I'm no longer welcome at places that want to attract couples and single women? [quote] but it is a solid fact that our numbers go up when the numbers of creepy old men go down.[/quote] Again, if it's a solid fact, there should be documentation for it. Please show your work. [quote] Creepy is dependent on where the autonomy line is drawn. Drawing autonomy away from someone is creepy. Saying, "I don't know what to believe," draws the autonomy line away from the person speaking. They are literally saying how they see things, and their words are being ignored. They won't argue, they will simply gather where their words are respected, and they have.[/quote] I don't know what you mean by "autonomy line." In management theory, it is defined as "the point at which the team is the clear owner and management doesnt interfere." I'm trying to see how that relates to the discussion at hand, except to say that the more rules there are in a group, the less autonomy the group has to make its own decisions. So what are the "rules" in play here, exactly? [quote]Making nudity mandatory moves the autonomy line away from the person in question. Nobody owes anyone a look at their body. They can't ask people to look away, but they like likewise can't be required to strip for anyone.[/quote] But further down, you say: [quote] I would LOVE to own a gym and make showering nude and sitting in the sauna on a towel nude, a mandate..[/quote] So you're in favor of a situation where nudity is mandatory, where people are required to strip, and therefore it is mandatory for people to look at your body, and mandatory for you to see theirs? I really can't tell which side of the argument you're on. Help me out here.

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• CY

  

  CoR YYC

  Dec 31, 2020

  @woodsman21 - edited my post to add the citation which apparently went missing. MapJock wrote: [quote]I would LOVE to own a gym and make showering nude and sitting in the sauna on a towel nude, a mandate..[/quote] woodsman21 wrote:
  [quote]I really can't tell which side of the argument you're on. Help me out here.[/quote] As for the rest, you don't need to buy in. It's not that important. We will continue to stage our events and gatherings using our data, and others are welcome to do it their way, too. There is room for everyone.

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• RA

  

  Ras

  Feb 8, 2021

  I was reading an earlier post that suggested that some of the issue around men not being comfortable being naked was a feminist call about 'male privilege' being able to go shirtless. I have heard this before. I am all for equality, and a step further justice for all genders. But there are some things about our bodies that give privilege. I as a male will never have a child in my womb . I will never know what it is like to breast feed a baby. and I have yet to met a woman who has had prostrate cancer. I fully support woman who chose to breast feed in public. It is a natural and very normal thing to do. Rather than saying men should not go shirtless in order to stop male privilege . We should be saying it is alright for woman to go topless as I have witness in many 'summer gathering'. Teaching boys to cover up is to also teach body shame as an unintended consequence. Naked life teaches body acceptance. I love to see the diversity of bodies on this web sight. Posted with out shame!

  KiwiRas

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• TD

  

  Tom D

  Feb 8, 2021

  We should be saying it is alright for woman to go topless as I have witness in many 'summer gathering'.

  I agree, but very few would likely do so.
  In neighboring (for me) NY state, women are permitted to be topless at beaches, parks and many other outdoor locations, but very few are.

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• DA

  

  Dave

  Feb 8, 2021

  What is needed, I think, is major education of acceptance of the human body. Nudity should not be a crime, or obscene anywhere. All beaches should be open to nudity should the person choose to be. All school showers after physical education classes should be made mandatory. When I went to school in the late 70's (highschool) showers were not mandatory, except only twice did the teacher make us. It was not general practice. I felt, that the other boys were too embarrassed to strip down naked in front of their peers and take showers. Where does that come from?! Home life! That is where we need to educate. Walt Disney films in the early 60's I believe, before my time, made movies with nude children. Now those scenes were not in any way sexual, but just the natural youthful kid showing that he/she did not care about being seen nude, and in fact enjoyed the freedom from wearing clothes all the time. IE, when swimming it is not necessary to have to cover up the skin. Now that said, there are those few people and I feel for them, but they genetically cannot be outside in the sun, as it is harmful to them. They can only come outside at night time! I don't remember the name of the disease, but that is the only time I can see the necessity to cover up!, unless it is - 50C below!

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