Single Mens Army

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• ST

  

  StevieLorna

  Oct 14, 2020

  Woodsman suggested the difference in attitude to me in another thread. He is American who has spent time in Europe so I accepted his greater knowledge.

  But for everything else, you are right on the money.

  Well done Hanson.

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• ST

  

  StevieLorna

  Oct 14, 2020

  Thank you Andy you have defined and demonstrated the word troll perfectly.

  Ive never been labeled an orthodox naturist before. Perhaps I am, but I dont like to label people.

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• JO

  

  John

  Oct 14, 2020

  StevieLorna wrote: [quote]Woodsman suggested the difference in attitude to me in another thread. He is American who has spent time in Europe so I accepted his greater knowledge. [/quote] Remember the old story about the blind men investigating an elephant, and coming up with different metaphors? I think that our examination of the subject is like that. We're seeing different aspects of the culture in different lands and are always risking the danger that we're extrapolating what we see. And I think Jehoram was the one that differentiated between the older, more organized culture and the newer, more free-form culture, and how the two didn't really associate or overlap with each other. But it does correspond with what I've seen.

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• ST

  

  StevieLorna

  Oct 14, 2020

  Thank you Woodsman, I used the words, suggested the difference, so as not to put you on the spot.
  
  I can only report on what I have experienced . I have no experience of US naturism so Im glad to learn from others.

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• JO

  

  John

  Oct 14, 2020

  And I have no experience with English nudism, or with any European nudism, except for what I saw in Germany ca 1970. But that was a different time ... we were all young, and we were all exploring barriers and identifying with a counter-culture that said, "If you want to smoke dope or drop acid or take your clothes off, feel free. We'll be there for you." So we did all of those things. And wewerethere for each other. People who didn't understand that culture called us "hippies," a term that was coined by a journalist in San Francisco. We didn't like it much, and preferred to be nameless, although we did kinda like the term "freeks" ... free and freaky. If we needed a fancy name for it, we called it the "counter-culture." We hated that song "If You Come to San Francisco" and other "hippie" anthems. Instead, we listened to the Jefferson Airplane and Jimi Hendrix and the Grateful Dead. We knew the world was changing, and we wanted to be part of that change. What we didn't realize was that the world wasn't going to change very much, after all. But it did change, in ways that are still being felt.

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• ST

  

  StevieLorna

  Oct 15, 2020

  Woodsman we dont have any experience of English naturism either, but dont worry about it, its a mistake you Canadians often make.

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  Gordy57

  Oct 15, 2020

  [quote]Thank you Andy you have defined and demonstrated the word troll perfectly.Ive never been labeled an orthodox naturist before. Perhaps I am, but I dont like to label people. Mmmm. Is this fair ... or credible? A classic practice of trolling is posting contrary to facts and disingenuous game-playing.. Definitions of internet troll are many and reference a will to be disruptive by posting insulting, rude or even harmful comments, deliberately posting off topic, ignoring facts that are well proven, and being facetious or downright dishonest. Interestingly theres broad agreement that the motivation to troll is one of jealousy. The typical troll is frustrated with his ( research consistently agrees that the majority are male ) own life and craves attention. This is easiest pursued in a cowardly way online which has led some to label trolls closet bullies. This also explains the frequent use of passive aggressive argument and fake victim hood. It also explains why we dont meet these people in real life nudist situations. Either theyre not present / active in those real life communities or are present but are too cowardly to behave as badly as they do online hiding behind their keyboards. Being disruptive and eliciting emotional reactions from other users of social media gives the weak ego a sense of validation through getting attention from those of who hes envious. Youd be forgiven for thinking that, on a base level trolls are just idiots who are a nuisance. However trolling often reveals more sinister personality traits that shouldnt be left unaddressed. Like other negative behaviours, trolling tends to intensify over time and the lengths to which a troll will go increase. This has led to grave harassment and very real harm to real people. So trolling isnt funny or just a weak, narcissistic mans hobby. Its nasty and can even be dangerous. Common troll personality traits observed by psychologists include extreme narcissism coupled with cowardly secrecy about their own identity and lives. Trolls only reveal enough ( commonly fake ) information about themselves to gain access to social media platforms etc and to fabricate an online persona that will give an impression of standing within an online community and help to fake up validity to their deliberately disruptive, disingenuous, pretentious, offensive, and / or wilfully harmful engagement. Standard advice is Dont feed the trolls - they love the attention. And thats what I intend to do - however Stoneandy doesnt deserve the unworthy insinuations of the reply from StevieLorna quoted above. Stoneandy doesnt exhibit any of the traits listed above. Wheres his narcissism? HE doesnt think that 400+ members of TN want to friend him for sex, nor has he researched their profiles and save up their unaccepted friend requests. Wheres his secretiveness? His openness is an example to all of us. Wheres his disrespect? He doesnt insult other members or post in a superior I know best manner. Where are his off topic replies? I could go on and on but .. enough said. The StevieLorna reply quoted above and others of his replies are classic trolling displaying many of the behaviours listed above. There are so many wonderful, kind, open-hearted naturists - why would a troll allow his attention-seeking cowardice to wilfully try to undermine their connections and harm naturism as a whole? Why not join in the discussions in meaningful ways and drop the attempts at being smart? Tell us about your experiences and feelings? Be vulnerable and experience the real naturism of what might be termed shared emotional nudity! The real you probably deserves our attention - so theres no need to troll for it. Stoneandy ( who youve insinuated is a troll ) is exemplary in being open, thoughtful and respectful. Hes revealed personal details that show strength and sincerity. Personally Ive learned from him - I think he deserves respect ... and an apology.[/quote] Well said, Thank You. I often wish I had the ability to write like that. I have dealt with that troll / bully before. Someone who did not recognize defence against a bully deleted the conversation. And the troll / bulley saw it as an opportunity to get the last word in, and took it. And probably will again ;-O

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  Gordy57

  Oct 15, 2020

  [quote]Dont give a shit to people who bully you. I dont understand what its the big deal. We are all adults who can easily handle stupid people with stupid behavior.[/quote] Everybody is different, I can only do that so long. If you are old enough to have watched in the Popeye cartoon's, you know he had to deal with Brutus the bully. Popeye had a saying which I find to be true, "When enough is enough, enough is to much". At 5'5" and 200 to 220 Lbs most of my life, I am no stranger to being bullied. The best way to deal with them is a fist to the nose, to let them know you will not put up with it. I know that is not a popular idea with the modern efforts to feminise the men in our society.Remember Kenny Rogers song, Sometimes you have to fight when your a man. You could also look at it as another way to make this site better, if we can get him to knock it off.

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• SA

  

  Stone Andy

  Oct 15, 2020

  The term trolling hits a deep chord in me. My roots are Scandinavian and trolls are part of our folklore, dating back centuries. Real trolls are derived from the spirits of the dead and live isolated under rocks, mountains, or in caves, and are almost always trouble or dangerous for humans. Many are ugly and slow-witted, but they may also first appear to be humans, but reveal their true nature due to being spiteful, greedy and lacking any compassion. Being a nudist around trolls is also most helpful, as it they in turn cant hide their tails and true identity. Like vampires, trolls cant be exposed to sunlight or theyll turn to stone. You deal with trolls not by giving them attention, but trusting
  your wits. Theres a Norwiegan story about a boy named Ashlad who ends up in an eating contest with a troll. He outsmarts the troll by wearing a backpack on his chest and cutting it open to make room for more food. The troll follows his example, except that he cuts his stomach open and dies. Thus, let the trolls out-troll and destroy themselves.

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• BR

  

  Brett Rapley

  Oct 25, 2020

  [quote]Its a fact that we do have over 400 friends request pending. We get about three a week they rarely contain a message but I always check the profile. Its almost always sexual in nature, either directly in the info or indirectly by which groups they belong too.You are correct that its vain to think they all want to have sex. Maybe they just want to join our book club.No where in this thread have I indicated that we feel victimised. Its not frustrating either, its just how things work on TN.I feel sorry that the OP has had such a bad experience, but I think hes wrong to blame all couples for his lack of a naturist partner. Something he hopes for on his profile .I wish him the best of luck. Three a week? Sounds pretty average to me. So you go to the bother of checking their profile out ... decide you dont want anything to do with them ...but then dont delete their request ? ?? Mmm. And they all want to have sex with one or both of you? Mmm. .. And you dont want anything to do with them but have saved up their friend requests over a couple of years? Mmm. And youre real naturists but theyre definitely not? Mmm Youve made up your own set of naturist rules so you know who is and isnt a real naturist isnt that right? Mmm. Those single naturist types ... probably all weirdos?? Dyou reckon? Mmm. They must be - sure theyre queueing up in their hundreds wanting sex with you. Isnt that right? Mmm My advice? Maybe start deleting your unwanted requests like everyone else does? ...or use the contacts youve made a point of saving up and hire a large party tent and let them all have their dirty way with you. You could even make a video and sell it to the comedy channel! Okay lets be vaguely serious for a moment and consider a married naturist couple of which you might approve. What if their marriage broke up or sadly one of them passed away? Presumably the remaining naturist would need to be recategorised and cast out? Otherwise he ( or she ) would probably join the queue for a piece of you!! And then youd have 401 to tell us all about! Bye bye now![/quote] Perfection set in words !

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• BR

  

  Brett Rapley

  Oct 25, 2020

  [quote]Its a fact that we do have over 400 friends request pending. We get about three a week they rarely contain a message but I always check the profile. Its almost always sexual in nature, either directly in the info or indirectly by which groups they belong too. You are correct that its vain to think they all want to have sex. Maybe they just want to join our book club. No where in this thread have I indicated that we feel victimised. Its not frustrating either, its just how things work on TN. I feel sorry that the OP has had such a bad experience, but I think hes wrong to blame all couples for his lack of a naturist partner. Something he hopes for on his profile . I wish him the best of luck.[/quote] Why have you kept these so called 400 requests ? What makes you two so damned wonderful, or assume that all those 400 want to have sex with either or both of you ! You state you don't feel victimised, yet that is exactly what you are doing to others who don't agree with your bitchy words, VICTIMISING them. I will also ask, why the hell do the so called couples on here feel so threatened by single guys or women wanting to possibly befriend you or any other couple ? It does not make a difference what a persons sexuality is, you don't have the right to assume that either one of these people wants to have sex with one or either of you. IF this is how things work on TN, then either let it go or shut the hell up being a pair of bitches about it. The OP may have had a bad experience, maybe not, he simply pointed out the bigotry of people like yourselves. There is also the fact, in particular with some straight guys, that if a gay guy likes your profile or even comments on your pictures, your automatically assuming they are after your dick ! That's a false assumption on your behalf, not every gay man or woman is a fucking sex pest or may want to contact you just to see if they can get into your internal organs, that Cliche is older than time itself. It also goes to show, just how immature your imaginations are, why do you feel violated if someone clicks LIKE on your profile ? A dick is a dick, not every gay man does or will want to try it out for size, get the hell over yourselves.

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• BR

  

  Brett Rapley

  Oct 25, 2020

  [quote]Thank you Andy you have defined and demonstrated the word troll perfectly. Ive never been labeled an orthodox naturist before. Perhaps I am, but I dont like to label people.[/quote] How can you state that you don't like to label people, when that is exactly what you are doing with your words !! You seem to forget that most of us can read between the lines and realise exactly what you mean and say !!! Stone Andy is obviously a damned intelligent man, and his words are very spot on in how he sees and views what others say on here, as does Em1Dub.

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• BR

  

  Brett Rapley

  Oct 25, 2020

  [quote]Thank you Andy you have defined and demonstrated the word troll perfectly.Ive never been labeled an orthodox naturist before. Perhaps I am, but I dont like to label people. Mmmm. Is this fair ... or credible? A classic practice of trolling is posting contrary to facts and disingenuous game-playing.. Definitions of internet troll are many and reference a will to be disruptive by posting insulting, rude or even harmful comments, deliberately posting off topic, ignoring facts that are well proven, and being facetious or downright dishonest. Interestingly theres broad agreement that the motivation to troll is one of jealousy. The typical troll is frustrated with his ( research consistently agrees that the majority are male ) own life and craves attention. This is easiest pursued in a cowardly way online which has led some to label trolls closet bullies. This also explains the frequent use of passive aggressive argument and fake victimhood. It also explains why we dont meet these people in real life nudist situations. Either theyre not present / active in those real life communities or are present but are too cowardly to behave as badly as they do online hiding behind their keyboards. Being disruptive and eliciting emotional reactions from other users of social media gives the weak ego a sense of validation through getting attention from those of whom hes envious. Youd be forgiven for thinking that, on a base level trolls are living caricatures of low achievers who are a nuisance. However trolling often reveals more sinister personality traits that shouldnt be left unaddressed. Like other negative behaviours, trolling tends to intensify over time and the lengths to which a troll will go increase. This has led to grave harassment and very real harm to real people. So trolling isnt funny or just a weak, narcissistic mans hobby. Its nasty and can even be dangerous. Common troll personality traits observed by psychologists include extreme narcissism coupled with cowardly secrecy about their own true identity and lives. Trolls only reveal enough ( commonly fake ) information about themselves to gain access to social media platforms etc and to fabricate an online persona that will give an impression of standing / credibility within an online community and help to fake up validity to their deliberately disruptive, disingenuous, pretentious, offensive, and / or wilfully harmful engagement. Standard advice is Dont feed the trolls - they love the attention. And thats what I intend to do - however Stoneandy doesnt deserve the unworthy insinuations of the reply from StevieLorna quoted above. Stoneandy doesnt exhibit any of the traits listed above. Wheres his narcissism? HE doesnt think that 400+ members of TN want to friend him for sex, nor has he researched their profiles and saved up their unaccepted friend requests. Wheres his secretiveness? His openness is an example to all of us. Wheres his disrespect? He doesnt insult other members or post in a superior I know best manner. Where are his off topic replies? I could go on and on but .. enough said. The StevieLorna reply quoted above and others of his replies are classic trolling displaying many of the behaviours listed above. There are so many wonderful, kind, open-hearted naturists - why would a troll allow his attention-seeking cowardice to wilfully try to undermine their connections and harm naturism as a whole? Why not join in the discussions in meaningful ways and drop the attempts at being smart? Tell us about your experiences and feelings? Be vulnerable and experience the real naturism of what might be termed shared emotional nudity! The real you probably deserves our attention - so theres no need to troll for it. Stoneandy ( who youve insinuated is a troll ) is exemplary in being open, thoughtful and respectful. Hes revealed personal details that show strength and sincerity. Personally Ive learned from him - I think he deserves respect ... and an apology.[/quote] Thank you Em1Dub, yourself and StoneAndy show exactly who the real troll is ! You guys are a TRUE inspiration to myself and hopefully a lot of other people on here.

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• BR

  

  Brett Rapley

  Oct 25, 2020

  [quote]We have over 400 friends requests pending. They are almost exclusively from single men who either want to have sex with me, Lorna or both of us. We make it clear on our profile that we are genuine naturists and not swingers but they must not have read that. If you are a naturist couple on the internet this is what you have to put up with.[/quote] Do you two, or in particular Stevie, realise why so many of us have a pop back at you ? You are trolling the comments of other genuine people, you think you are such experts on the subject of Naturism/nudity, when you are truly not ! I will stand up for anyone on here that has a genuine question to ask, regardless of the subject and whether it's been asked before by someone else ! I am sticking up for that persons right to ask whatever damn question they want to, and I WILL call you out on your bitch comments, that are certainly not constructive or helpful. I certainly don't get why you two think your such popular sexual objects to over 400 friend requests (mostly from single guys) ! Perhaps they see something in you Stevie, that you have been trying to hide all your life ? Just saying .....

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• GU

  

  Guzzi27

  Oct 25, 2020

  A lot of traffic in this post since I last commented. I would say that, as someone who counts as a single male nudists on this site, I dont totally agree with the OP.
  Yes you have a right to reach out to people. But you also have a responsibility to do so in a friendly and constructive way that respects what they put down as interests and preferences on their profile, And it is amazing how few people read profiles before sending friend requests etc.
  If that profile says no single men. Fine, move on, respect it dont ignore it. You dont know quite what reason there is behind it, and you have no right to know.
  It is no different from the sign on my front door saying no cold callers. We are fed up with the hassle of people knocking on our door trying to sell stuff or collect for charity. It means that we do miss some charities that we would actually donate to, but other ways of doing that. It doesnt stop our new next door neighbour coming round to say hi.
  It prevents hassle from the type of people that have become a nuisance. Is it unfair in classing them all the same, undoubtedly yes. But we have a right to limit who we deal with at our front door.
  Someone putting no single men on their profile or ignoring approaches from single men is exactly the same. Could it be unfair in the motivations of a particular single make, yes it could. But it is their right to do and that possibly a greater right than your right to expect to talk to them.

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  StevieLorna

  Oct 25, 2020

  [quote]. I think your comment is full of hate and quite immature. Do not demand respect from other users using such a bad manner.[/quote] Hes a moron. Dont worry about his words.

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• JO

  

  John

  Oct 25, 2020

  Guzzi27 wrote: [quote] Yes you have a right to reach out to people. But you also have a responsibility to do so in a friendly and constructive way that respects what they put down as interests and preferences on their profile, And it is amazing how few people read profiles before sending friend requests etc. If that profile says no single men. Fine, move on, respect it dont ignore it. You dont know quite what reason there is behind it, and you have no right to know. Someone putting no single men on their profile or ignoring approaches from single men is exactly the same. Could it be unfair in the motivations of a particular single make, yes it could. But it is their right to do and that possibly a greater right than your right to expect to talk to them.[/quote] Well said, Guzzi. The longer I live, the more I appreciate that nearly everybody is in some sort of struggle against their past or something that happened there, and we don't have a clue about what that struggle is about. So respecting other people's space is paramount, whether it's in person or on a forum or whatever. I should point out that we single men are often paying for the sins of other single men who have refused to respect that space of others. Yes, it's a shame that we have to do this. It's a form of profiling, which we decry when we see our police or our press doing it. But it's a fact we have to live with. Simply saying that it's wrong doesn't exonerate us from having to disregard it. We single men have to convince others that we do respect the space of others, that we won't stare at women or hit on them or otherwise make them uncomfortable. If the "Single Men's Army" has an enemy to fight, it's not the people who put us down. It's the countless single men who have pissed in the pool in the past, and who are doing it now.

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• EA

  

  EarlD

  Oct 25, 2020

  [quote] I should point out that we single men are often paying for the sins of other single men who have refused to respect that space of others. Yes, it's a shame that we have to do this. It's a form of profiling, which we decry when we see our police or our press doing it. But it's a fact we have to live with. Simply saying that it's wrong doesn't exonerate us from having to disregard it. We single men have to convince others that we do respect the space of others, that we won't stare at women or hit on them or otherwise make them uncomfortable. If the "Single Men's Army" has an enemy to fight, it's not the people who put us down. It's the countless single men who have pissed in the pool in the past, and who are doing it now.[/quote] Wise words thanks for sharing this perspective all to often a perspective that get drowned out by those who suggest anything goes without regard for consequence.

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• GU

  

  Guzzi27

  Oct 26, 2020

  [/quote] I should point out that we single men are often paying for the sins of other single men who have refused to respect that space of others. Yes, it's a shame that we have to do this. It's a form of profiling, which we decry when we see our police or our press doing it. But it's a fact we have to live with. Simply saying that it's wrong doesn't exonerate us from having to disregard it. We single men have to convince others that we do respect the space of others, that we won't stare at women or hit on them or otherwise make them uncomfortable. If the "Single Men's Army" has an enemy to fight, it's not the people who put us down. It's the countless single men who have pissed in the pool in the past, and who are doing it now.[/quote] Exactly

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• SA

  

  Stone Andy

  Oct 26, 2020

  [quote]I should point out that we single men are often paying for the sins of other single men who have refused to respect that space of others. Yes, it's a shame that we have to do this. It's a form of profiling, which we decry when we see our police or our press doing it. ... If the "Single Men's Army" has an enemy to fight, it's not the people who put us down. It's the countless single men who have pissed in the pool in the past, and who are doing it now. [/quote] You come out against profiling only to ... profile yourself. Are you saying that only single men piss in the pool? Implying that men who have a female chaperone behave? Isn't that a bit like saying black people are arrested for driving while black are justified because black drivers before them were worse drivers than their ethnic majority counterparts/ Could we perhaps focus on the condemnable behavior without profiling?

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• JO

  

  John

  Oct 27, 2020

  Stoneandy wrote:
  [quote]IYou come out against profiling only to ... profile yourself. Are you saying that only single men piss in the pool? Implying that men who have a female chaperone behave? Isn't that a bit like saying black people are arrested for driving while black are justified because black drivers before them were worse drivers than their ethnic majority counterparts/ Could we perhaps focus on the condemnable behavior without profiling?[/quote]
  
  It's not me doing the profiling. It's the resorts that charge single men up to six times the admission fee that they charge for single women or accompanied men, or simply refuse to admit them at all.
  
  I'm sure there are men who are accompanied by women and who "piss in the pool," but they're not singled out for discrimination the way unaccompanied men are.
  
  As for the "driving while black" analogy, let's be clear about something: the dynamics of that are complex. It's almost never based on the assumption that Black drivers are historically worse than other drivers. It's based on keeping Blacks from being in places where Blacks aren't supposed to be, namely white neighborhoods, particularly after dark, on the assumption that they're up to no good. At least that's the pretext.
  
  The real dynamic is that Black people are being told that they are under the yoke of white law enforcement, and need to be reminded of that from time to time. That was explained to me by Black co-workers when I was doing health inspections for the Baltimore City Health Department (of the 80-some members of my division of that department, I was one of five whites). Usually, they'd let me drive, on the grounds that we'd be less likely to be stopped if a white guy was at the wheel. Believe me, the danger of "Driving While Black" is very real, and not based at all on how the driving is done.

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• JO

  

  John

  Oct 30, 2020

  [quote]* Implying that men who have a female chaperone behave?* [/quote] I can say in my experience it is almost always the married man who is at the nudist venue without his wife that causes the most problems. Not always, but often enough that it sticks out. John aka cobeachbum

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• NU

  nudeyooper

  Nov 1, 2020

  [quote]I can say in my experience it is almost always the married man who is at the nudist venue without his wife that causes the most problems. Not always, but often enough that it sticks out.John aka cobeachbum Care to elaborate? As a married guy I'm not really seeing why my wife not being with me would suddenly make me problematic - it's not like I magically turn into an asshole when my wife isn't around to keep me in check, lol.[/quote] Only speculation on my part but an asshole is just that whether clothed or nude and if he is true to himself he'll be an asshole whenever his wife is not with him or worse yet, all the time.

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• GE

  

  Geoff

  Nov 2, 2020

  Gday guys,

  I recently rejoined as I couldnt even remember my previous log in. Im a divorced single guy and many if not the majority of clubs and venues either totally reject solo males or jerk you around so long on a waiting list they hope youll give up and go away. So I started my own localised group covering my area in Australia for solo males:

  North Queensland Solo Male Social Group - https://www.truenudists.com/group/nqld-solo-male-group

  In my sparsely populated part of the world the area is bigger than most European countries, but its a start and Im determined to make it work. Even in this area, there must be hundreds of unaccompanied males who can band together to enjoy simple nudism/naturism by beach days, bushwalking/hiking, group bookings of venues, etc.. The only limits are our imagination and determination. Once a group is formed it could become affiliated with other nearby clubs/venues whether mixed or not.

  And does anybody know how one can promote a group to others who may wish to join?

  Thanks for reading

  Geoff

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