Our application was approved and we were provided the "Trusted Seal". After just a few days of a few of the "trustees of the board" complained and required us to remove it. I know that one of our smaller competitors is friends with a lot of the people in AANR and in my opinion believe this may have influenced this decision.
I was denied a reason for the dismissal and even a contact to discuss the matter with, until I threatened to notify my user base about the dismissal. I was contacted today by Jim Smock, AANR Executive Director, who told me the reason for the dismissal was because there were some pictures that he found that could be construed as provacative. There is always a challenge to keep the site clean, and I believe we do a pretty good job at moderating and removing these pictures, but without completely removing the pictures it's not possible to notice every misplaced hand. That said, I was happy to have at least been acknowledged and given a reason for the dismissal.
The problem that haunts me after this, is not that our site does not conform to AANR's definition of nudism. It's that sites that face the same issues as us are allowed. It seems rather fishy to me that my competitors who have the same difficulty as us in moderating pictures are allowed into the "Trusted Website" program. Our site has the most advanced moderation techniques, every single picture is seen by a moderator, and users have the ability to flag anything that sneaks through, our competitors do not. When I asked how this was possible, I was told it was not something that could be discussed. I'm not going to persue this any further. We've already been denied a chance to advertise with AANR in January, now the trusted website fees, and they've already lost these 2 members, I hope that the money that they're turning down is for the right reason, and not just a friendly favor to our competitor.
What are your thoughts on the matter?
Replies
- MEMemberMay 16, 2012Okay, so why then are we still listed on their website as a "trusted site"?
http://www.aanr.com/trusted-websites&showsites=trueReactReply - MEMemberOriginal PosterMay 16, 2012
I'm sure they'll remove it soon enough.
ReactReply - RE
reds_daveMay 16, 2012AANR is a dying organization. Obviously, there are some B.S. politics at play here and we all know exactly from whom. I wouldn't worry too much about it TT1. I cancelled my membership there years ago, because it's useless. Who wants some creepy weird newspaper delivered to their house every month, and the 10% off I receive at clubs doesn't even reimburse half my membership fee.
ReactReply - VD
VdkaShakerMay 16, 2012Seems to me if you're going to be rejected there need to be clear examples of any violation and guidelines that are more specific than just "provocative". Odd that you would be flat rejected with no opportunity to resolve any concerns. I've never been a member of AANR and don't have any plans to, so no worries from me that you don't have their "Good Housekeeping" seal.
On a similar note, I read comments here on TN from members who've had pictured deleted. Can't you have some kind of notice or automated message to affected members that let's them know you're doing that?ReactReply - JA
jasonMay 16, 2012aanr is in the election process of electing new officers. hopefully the younger (as in not carrying both an aanr & aarp card) wins the election and brings in some fresh more modern ideas.
ReactReply - MEMemberMay 16, 2012Im pretty sure Brian Spence is the competitor teamtrue1 is talking about is running in those elections. I highly doubt that it's a coincidence that his involvement is why the site was denied. Seems pretty corrupt, I haven't renewed my membership for AANR this year and I don't think I will.ReactReply
- LY
lynnMay 16, 2012your site is the blandest, least sexual nudest site on the planet, it seems impossible that aanr would be more bland than you are
ReactReply - EV
Evan-hereMay 16, 2012Well I don't know the exact reasons AANR did that, but if it was for pics on here, it's understanable, many of the pics here are over the top for a nudist site, very sexual in nature. While it is up to the owner of a site to choose what her allows, it is also up to aanr to choose what they approve. As to the mods approving pics, well thats not what they claim, they state the have no control over the pics and can only flag them like everyone else. Just like in here, you make the rules and people are expected to live with them, AANR can do the same. As to no explanation, well, many have been booted out of the room and never told why, and if someone asks what they did, many times they are told to be quiet or get booted. Much could be done to "clean up" this site, more then just checking on the pics, many fake profiles exist here, many have been found out by other users, and nothing is done, perhaps that played a factor. As to AANR going away, i doubt that will happen anytime soon. As to the member who claims the discount doesn't amount to half his aanr member dues, well as someone who is a member of aanr and goes to resorts all i can say is he must not go to a resort very ofter. The cost of an AANR membership is small, 10% adds up fast. Also, the money goes to support nudism across the board, membership here goes to support the site, not nudism as a whole. I would like to see the AANR seal come back, I think it would be good for the site. Perhaps limiting people to only 5 pics would make it easier to control. I for one would like to see a much tougher certification process. The removal of profiles over a year inactive, a more active approach to dealing with proflles that contain fake pics, the removal of private profiles, profiles with more general info would be great, listing what State or country your from would be of help. Anyway, just my thoughts.
ReactReply - TH
ThomasMay 16, 2012I joined the other site and here about the same time when both sites were about the same size. I am confident that the AANR reasoning is based on what the other site owner says. I have seen attacks on this site by friends of the owner in the chat there. There is a strong resentment that this site had a tremendous growth and the other did not. The forums and groups here play a big part in the growth, guests and new members can learn a lot about the lifestyle without being forced to become paying members. The ability to send messages without paid membership is another reason.This action by AANR only confirms my decision to not become a member. I have seen that their primary goal is not to promote nudism but to promote nudist resorts that promote AANR membership. I prefer a nude beach to a resort, the one I go to is well regulated and patrolled for a fraction of the price of a resort.
ReactReply - T=
Tom === Thomas S. TierneyMay 16, 2012[quote]aanr is in the election process of electing new officers. hopefully the younger (as in not carrying both an aanr & aarp card) wins the election and brings in some fresh more modern ideas.[/quote]REALLY????ReactReply - REreds_daveMay 16, 2012
I personally think the site has been better since True Swingers was launched. Not having that element on this site has really turned down the sexual nature on this site.
ReactReply - SASamandKateMay 16, 2012[quote]Organisations like the AANR exist to sell membership, they are essentially companies. They exist for almost everything you can imagine. When you carefully look at organisations like this they work on a number of different aspects but primarily financial gain of its controlling offices whether by divided, wages or benefits. They are targeted and driven as a business but under the illusion of a group. When you look at organisations of this sort look at the membership cost compared to the membership base. They charge a fortune but what are the benefits that you get in value for your money. As for TS arguement. Social Co Media is a business one of the brands they offer is TN and another is TS these are tw seperate websites operated by the same company. It is like saying Tesco can't be trusted on its baby orientated website because it also has a website which sells alcohol.[/quote][quote]I would suggest that TN take the same stance that more and more companies are doing and not recognising these organisations or developing there own free replacements. Their primary use are a community and communication tool, a resource of information and a voice as a society. TN already tucks a lot of the boxes. So why not stand true and become true. TN should stand forth as not only a good social resource but as a social champion and direct competition, but an international non geographic organisation.[/quote][quote]In short: To all who work at TN, your doing a good job. Ignore them, and maybe even make a point out of being anti them and not recognising them due to corruption.[/quote]ReactReply
- MEMemberMay 16, 2012
I may be out of line somewhat, but wonder if the sister site True Swingers may have swayed opinion about TN!!!!!???
ReactReply - BA
Barebear1962May 16, 2012[quote] Perhaps limiting people to only 5 pics would make it easier to control. I for one would like to see a much tougher certification process. The removal of profiles over a year inactive, a more active approach to dealing with proflles that contain fake pics, the removal of private profiles, profiles with more general info would be great, listing what State or country your from would be of help. Anyway, just my thoughts.[/quote]I'm okay with some of those other things, but not the five picture rule. That would be way too limiting and I abandon sites that are that restrictive. I don't like being boxed in. I certainly have traveled to more then 5 beaches/pools/events and I'd like people to be able to see them....when I get around to uploading them that is. I'm a little behind in that. :)ReactReply - MEMemberMay 16, 2012Being a neighbor too close to the residence of Brian Spence I
hear plenty from Brian face to face, he is deeply disturbed by the fact that
TN far exceeds his NCH site. Being unable to face the reality that the problem
is much due to his lack of management skills. I have approached Brian about some
of the attacks he and his followers have made against TN, his reply was that
when you have competitors other people like his friends are responsible for all
the dirty work,. and he is then blameless. Actually AANR is pulling Brian's
strings and he leans toward the directions given him by other AANR officials.
My suggestion is to reconsider the facts we see from the actions
already taken, and realize that the AANR is not the sharpest tool in the shed.
Especially from a international audience, as there are many other nudist
organizations out there who definitely surpass the AANR, and it is truly sad
that we only at times see these things through USA stained glasses. I recently
talked to a nudist friendly nurse from the Netherlands about naturism, she
replied to my surprised she was eager to go to nudist places in Europe and
around the Mediterranean, but that she would never go to a nudist resort here in
the USA because here they all go for the wrong reasons.
I am hoping to get her to make an exception and visit a resort here
and kindly point out where the USA AANR nudist resorts fail. Seems more and more
people are finding fault with AANR places, and the rapid decrease of younger
generation nudist attendances. Perhaps a fact remains that AANR management needs
to take a more serious look at what is causing this site to excel while their
affiliate site is reaping so many complaints. AANR needs to come up to speed,
they keep using outdated nudist philosophies from nearly fifty years ago before
and during the uncle Danny era.
Let the facts bare record of the proven results of higher skilled
management of the web sites mentioned here and in web sites in these forum
posts. TT1 I would recommend you to keep steaming ahead on the proven course you
have so successfully proven, let the AANR continue to decline until they find
superior leadership, most likely by paying attention to the proven management
skills you have established as viable and successful. The race must go on! for
some who at the dawn of there success who stop to rest, and resting die. TN
could use a new and younger "nude caster" one who can by far easily surpass the
competitions, who by the way is slowing down faster and faster every day. FYI,
you could run for an office with AANR and I am sure you would win the votes,
they have troubles finding volunteers for candidates.ReactReply - GR
GrowBoyAkaMrYobbieMay 17, 2012I live in New Zealand - not the USA.I don't care about who or what organisation, I care about the friends I make here on TN.So - PPPAAAARRRRPPPHHHHH (blowing raspberries) to the ANNR
ReactReply - MA
MarkMay 17, 2012Wow, I'm new to this (online stuff) so I was looking to join AANR. Now I think I will not. I just checked with a good friend who was a AANR member as a Nude Charter Boat and he dropped his Buisness membership. I guess it is not hard to see why. Thanks TT keep up the good job!
ReactReply - CA
CabotCheeseMay 17, 2012I've been considering an AANR membership. I don't think I'll bother now.ReactReply - MAMarkMay 17, 2012
Bump
ReactReply - LO
loveinparadiseMay 17, 2012[quote]Well I don't know the exact reasons AANR did that, but if it was for pics on here, it's understanable, many of the pics here are over the top for a nudist site, very sexual in nature. While it is up to the owner of a site to choose what her allows, it is also up to aanr to choose what they approve. As to the mods approving pics, well thats not what they claim, they state the have no control over the pics and can only flag them like everyone else. Just like in here, you make the rules and people are expected to live with them, AANR can do the same. As to no explanation, well, many have been booted out of the room and never told why, and if someone asks what they did, many times they are told to be quiet or get booted. Much could be done to "clean up" this site, more then just checking on the pics, many fake profiles exist here, many have been found out by other users, and nothing is done, perhaps that played a factor. As to AANR going away, i doubt that will happen anytime soon. As to the member who claims the discount doesn't amount to half his aanr member dues, well as someone who is a member of aanr and goes to resorts all i can say is he must not go to a resort very ofter. The cost of an AANR membership is small, 10% adds up fast. Also, the money goes to support nudism across the board, membership here goes to support the site, not nudism as a whole. I would like to see the AANR seal come back, I think it would be good for the site. Perhaps limiting people to only 5 pics would make it easier to control. I for one would like to see a much tougher certification process. The removal of profiles over a year inactive, a more active approach to dealing with proflles that contain fake pics, the removal of private profiles, profiles with more general info would be great, listing what State or country your from would be of help. Anyway, just my thoughts.[/quote]ReactReply - CO
Curt, or CowboyMay 17, 2012I had hacked many of the photos on this site, ( not lately though, it was an academic exercise ) and quite frankly, some of them are only described ( kindly ) as "disturbing."
NiMA is absolutely correct in his observations of the photos and what's limiting policing.
The un-paid members who are not friends of questionable members, nor certified ( for whatever reasons ) are totally excluded from being of any help whatever. A failing IMHO.
Without hacking photos again, ( and I have no interest in doing so ) it's impossible to say whether improvement has been made.Some, brought to the fore-front in the forums have since gone away, but the rest are a question at best.Then too, there is the way-back machine, and many of the poor choice photos can be found there still.It may be that TN is being punished for past sins. I know not.
It's also still blindingly apparent that some of the rules ( such as profile photo must be you ) are not enforced, rendering them completely meaningless.ReactReply - RA
ravensflyinnowMay 17, 2012[quote]I had hacked many of the photos on this site, ( not lately though, it was an academic exercise ) and quite frankly, some of them are only described ( kindly ) as "disturbing."
NiMA is absolutely correct in his observations of the photos and what's limiting policing.
The un-paid members who are not friends of questionable members, nor certified ( for whatever reasons ) are totally excluded from being of any help whatever. A failing IMHO.
Without hacking photos again, ( and I have no interest in doing so ) it's impossible to say whether improvement has been made.Some, brought to the fore-front in the forums have since gone away, but the rest are a question at best.Then too, there is the way-back machine, and many of the poor choice photos can be found there still.It may be that TN is being punished for past sins. I know not.
It's also still blindingly apparent that some of the rules ( such as profile photo must be you ) are not enforced, rendering them completely meaningless.[/quote]Wow! I can't believe you have openly admitted hacking someones private pics...Academic Excerise or not...You've been flagged!ReactReply - JE
jerseygirl56ncMay 17, 2012As Evan says I could not agree more. He has come up with some valid points about the amount of pictures posted. It has got to be hard to keep up with everything. And I truly believe AANR does the best they can with what they have. When choosing a place to attend I always look at their list of clubs, because as a single woman in the nudist world I want to feel safe when I attend a club or camp. I hate the logo has gone and I hope the differences can be put aside and we can get it back.
ReactReply - JA
jaybirdsMay 17, 2012It's so sad to see this internecine infighting and political BS within our small community still being perpetrated by AANR, but then again it looks like it's business as usual, and as it's been since the days of Ilsley Boone's rule of the ASA, the organization that AANR grew out of. While they're still the pre-eminent organization of the nudist movement in the US, still do much that's good and worthy of support, like our own government, their bureaucratic structure and leadership can lead to actions such as this, which appear petty. Whether it's truly due to offending pics, which should have been pointed out BEFORE the approved staus was granted, or due to the alleged jelousy and objections of one of TN's competitors, who also happens to be active in AANR's leadership, as well as a candidate for Executive President of the organization, this looks fishy. This does not bode well for the future if these are the type of actions that they're going to continue with, dividing instead of uniting our community. And they wonder why they're losing membership. All they need to do is look at the majority of posts in this forum topic.
While we agree with much of what Evan-here, and others have said, that there are still a number of things that can be done by TT1 to improve this site and make it better, safer, and more enjoyable for all TrueNudists, we feel they're moving in the right direction, and is one of the reasons we're still here. It's pretty evident to those of us who've been here awhile that the growth of this site over NCH has been in part due to the lax oversite and moderation of pics and groups, which eventually led to TT1's initiation of his TrueSwinger's site to help direct those into that lifestyle away from here.The fact that TN was granted the "approved" status, but then rescinded allegedly due to existing offending pics, show there's still work to be done.
We suggest to those of you who have, or are considering, withdrawing your support of AANR, to consider throwing that support towards the Naturist Society, or the Naturist Action Committee.
In our experience they're a much more responsive, grass-roots type organization devoted to protecting nudists rights on our beaches, private and public lands, as opposed to the landed clubs which AANR was formed around, and continues to favor.
Case in point: Almost from the beginning, our non-landed club decided to do background checks and run all prospective members through sexual predator and felony databases in order to help protect our members and weed out those bringing the wrong agenda in. Over 5 yrs. ago we went to the leadship of both AANR and TNS and recommended that they do the same.
TNS immediately agreed, began and continues to run checks on their members. After a few yrs. of running the proposal through various committees, AANR decided to leave it up to each individual resort/club to do. In effect, this means that to this day, any sexual predator can send in his money to AANR national and be given a AANR membership card which gains him admittance to any resort not following up with a background check.
Another example: AANR hosts regional and national conventions around the country. These conventions are open to all members, but in order to get anything done during the business portion of the convention, you'd better be up on your Robert's Rules of Order, and have sufficent political support for your position, common sense sometimes notwithstanding.
TNS also holds regional conventions which they call "Gatherings" around the country. While there are always a number of workshops and presentations on various topics about the naturist lifestyle, one of the highlights of each Gathering is the Town Hall meeting for all who wish to attend. Everyone is given an opportunity to ask questions of the leadership, or to voice their opinion on what the Naturist Society is doing right and wrong, and give suggestions on how to improve. It's not uncommon to see suggestions implemented immediately, we've seen it happen more than once.
Ultimately, we believe that our sub-culture is still so small, and still faces so much negative pressure from those opposed to, afraid, or ignorant of our beliefs that both AANR and TNS are still deserving of our support, as both organizations do good things to help protect and promote our lifestyle. Both organizations are still made up of humans though, and as such can unfortunately get caught up in petty politics, and lose sight of the big picture, instead of uniting together in common cause. You can choose to withhold your support of these organizations, or you can work to try and change and improve them. We choose the latter. As countless others have proved throughout the ages, freedom is often not pretty, clean, or easy.ReactReply