Open marriage

Replies

• DA

  DanandJanette

  Aug 13, 2012

  [quote]Hey, folks
  
  I'm going to try posting this topic again. The last time someone brought this up, they got blasted for five pages of comments for trying to make this into a dating site.  THAT IS NOT THE POINT OF THIS POST!
  
  I'm trying to bring up an honest discussion. I'm NOT looking to hook up, here. So, on to the discussion.
  
  My wife and I are NOT swingers. (Not that there's anything wrong with that...). But, we do have an "open marriage" or, more precisely, we are "nonmonogamous." What this means is that we are free to date or sleep with other people with in the bounds of our marriage, and established rules. Our rules? Well, we don't really have any. Just the basic idea of "don't be an idiot" and "don't screw up our marriage." That's about it.
  
  For the record, this was her idea.
  
  What this has lead to is that, very occasionally, one or both of us will date other people. Maybe a couple of times a year. Sometimes this includes sex but mostly not. For awhile, we were fortunate enough to have another couple in our lives, and we could go out on double dates and sleep over. But that other couple has moved from town.  Damn.
  
  Anyway, with two kids, two careers and a start-up company, we don't really have time for anyone else in our lives. At least not full time. However, occasionally I'll have a chance to go do something that my wife doesn't enjoy (costume parties, country dancing, tantra workshops, etc.). Rather than not go (and possibly resent it) I can go with a friend without having to worry that something might develop about which I might have to feel guilty. Or, that my wife will be jealous.
  
  This has been particularly worthwhile with my naked adventures. My wife doesn't mind me being naked, and will get naked herself. But, it's just not a priority for her like it is for me. Since we could sleep around if we wanted to, when I find someone who likes to hang out naked my wife isn't all stressed out that I might be cheating on her. I might me. But it's not cheating. And she's not stressed out about it. (Generally, of course, I'm not....but it can be fun to think and talk about at times.)
  
  Does anyone else out there have a relationship that's anywhere like mine? Are such relationships becoming more common? Are people more open about them? I've seen a lot of press, lately, and even two t.v. shows about nonmonogamous couples. With the increase in press I figure that open marriages are becoming part of the zeitgest. Is there any reason to think that naturist couples are more likely, or less likely, to have such marriages?
  
  Please, discuss.......
  [/quote]  First of all, this being her idea, I would consider that a red flag if I were you. Second, I remember when you brought this up before and I'm still as puzzled now as I was then why you would bring it up in here. You may or may not be trolling, but I suspect you think nudists in general provide a more fertile ground for potential partners. Your post, IMO, is straddling the line for what is acceptable in a nudist-only forum. I also think trueswingers would be a much more appropriate place for it. I'm always aware of uninformed but curious newcomers logging on here and what their first impressions are, because you don't get a second chance to make a positive one. And a post like yours is likely to confirm what they suspected all along about what really goes on in "those" places. One more thing......your life is yours to live the way you want, but out of curiosity, why would you two even bother getting married?
  

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• ME

  Member

  Aug 13, 2012

  [quote]I see.  So two faceless and uncertified profiles have decided to judge and condemn.  Nothing too new about that.  You pervs and peekers really have a lot of nerve.[/quote]At least the quality of your contributions to these forums is consistent.  So, there's that.

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• ME

  Member

  Aug 13, 2012

  [quote]My wife and I are NOT swingers...one or both of us will date other people...Sometimes this includes sex...we could sleep around if we wanted to[/quote]"Swingers" - you keep using that word.  I do not think it means what you think it means.
  
  And I agree with DanandJanette that TrueSwingers.com would be a better place for your post and that it's a shame that posts like this will have the effect of furthering the stereotype that nudists are sexually dysfunctional perverts.

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• ME

  Member

  Aug 13, 2012

  Okay, Soupie, let me see if I understand your position.  Because the first two respondants to this thread are uncertified and have no profile picture, their thoughtful contributions are irrelevant?
  
  Personally, I think that the readers of this forum are smarter than that and can identify a thoughtful reasoned contribution when they see one (I'm not talking about mine, by the way) regardless of whether someone chooses to get certified or post a picture of themselves.
  
  And for those who are itching to hear how non-monogamous, open marriages are now mainstream and all the rage, sorry for the temporary hijack.  Carry on with your discussion.

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• DA

  DanandJanette

  Aug 13, 2012

  [quote]At least the quality of your contributions to these forums adds to nothing.  You have an opinion.  It's different than mine.  That's called freedom.  Try to get used to it.[/quote]  Jesus, if that ain't the pot calling the kettle black.
  

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• SO

  

  Soupie

  Aug 13, 2012

  If you were true conservatives, which means that you worship the past, you would understand that a man who voices an opinion without the courage to back it up with an identity, is a coward.

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• DA

  DanandJanette

  Aug 13, 2012

  [quote]Trust me guys, there is nothing irresistible about either of you and no one particularly wants to see you.  What you add to the forums is your ego, your intolerance and your prejudice.  Without having the guts to put a face or name behind it.  Which, to me, is true cowardice.  It isn't about sending a pic over the internet.  It's about putting yourself out there to back up your opinions.  And you can't and won't do that.[/quote]     Ego?? Here you are speaking for every member in this forum, as if YOU have any idea who does or doesn't want to see or hear from us. You are the true epitome of the sanctimonious, tyrannical, and above all HYPOCRITICAL leftist. I could sit here and list every social issue and guess at least 90% where you fall with them. You have absolutely nothing good to say about anyone who doesn't march in lock step with every single opinion you hold, yet you have the nerve to call us conservatives intolerant, and much worse. If you care to re-read my response to the OP, maybe you'll take note I was at least courteous to him, which is far more than most in here could ever expect from you. Your hypocrisy is further exposed whenever you call someone a coward....you don't argue with facts, but with labels. Homophobe and neo-con being two of your favorites. We use facts, you use personal insults. You and your brother in arms in California have both wished me personal harm in lieu of substantive discourse.....you,pal, are a blight on my country.
  

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• SO

  

  Soupie

  Aug 13, 2012

  Oh Gollum, you are so obsessed with me.  It's pathetic.  And so is your humour.
  Now back to the subject of the thread.  And try not to judge and condemn.

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• DA

  

  danglinOriginal Poster

  Aug 13, 2012

  OK! Everybody stop with the ad hominem attacks!
  
  I explicitly sought to make this a discussion! Not a pissing contest!
  
  So, let's get back to the discussion. There were, I think, two comments directly addressing the topic of my post. I'd like to respond to those.
  
  Here's one, and I'll try to respond within the quotes:
  
  "First of all, this being her idea, I would consider that a red flag if I
  
  were you.Why? She proposed it when we first started dating. So, since I agreed I was aware of the terms of the relationship. I consider an act on honesty. Not a warning.
  
  Second, I remember when you brought this up before and I'm
  
  still as puzzled now as I was then why you would bring it up in here.Because I thought this is a worthy topic of discussion. The previous time, I believe, I posted on this was in response to someone else's question in a thread that had suffered the same fate as this one apparently has suffered
  
  You may or may not be trolling,(I am not. You'll notice I'm never in the chat room, for instance)but I suspect you think nudists in
  
  general provide a more fertile ground for potential partners.No. That would be trolling.
  
  Your post,
  
  IMO, is straddling the line for what is acceptable in a nudist-only
  
  forum.Why? many other things are discussed here. This is a couple section.
  
  I also think trueswingers would be a much more appropriate place
  
  for it.No, because I'm not trolling. I'm not a swinger. And I'm honestly trying to start a discussion. BTW-I'm not trying to indoctrinate you into the terminology of nonmonogamy. But, from my standpoint (and it is one widely shared) the term "swinger" connotes a certain ethos and activity level that I neither subscribe to nor participate in.
  
  I'm always aware of uninformed but curious newcomers logging on
  
  here and what their first impressions are, because you don't get a
  
  second chance to make a positive one. And a post like yours is likely to
  
  confirm what they suspected all along about what really goes on in
  
  "those" places.You seem to presume that all prospective newcomers to this site share your same values and intentions. I don't share either your views or that expectation. Therefore, this thread is an attempt to start a discussion.
  
  I deal with a wide variety or minority, or disfavored social groups. It's always interesting to me how each social group views themselves as normal (but for their own interest that separates them from the group at large) and therefor "not like those other deviants."   These are judgment calls, all. But, some of the most "radical" people I know are the most "conservative" in their attempts to fit in with the dominant paradigm.
  
  One more thing......your life is yours to live the way
  
  you want, but out of curiosity, why would you two even bother getting
  
  married"?Thank you. I will. We got married for probably much the same reasons you did. You didn't get married just for the sex, did you? I assume your marriage is much deeper and broader than just your sexual relationship.  So, is mine."
  
  And another one:
  "Good points, Dan. I also wonder why, if she is the one who first proposed the idea, is it that she becomes jealous.She doesn't, and I don't think I said she did. I was pointing out that the advantage or our arrangement is that there is no cause for jealousy."
  
  And a last one. I actually consider this one mostly an ad hominem attack, but I'd like to respond, anyway:
  
  "And I agree with DanandJanette that TrueSwingers.com would be a better
  
  place for your postYou, also, are presuming that I'm trolling. I am not.and that it's a shame that posts like this will have
  
  the effect of furthering the stereotype that nudists are
  
  sexually dysfunctional perverts.I disagree that a post like mine furthers that impression. For that matter, I disagree that there is any impression that nudists are sexually dysfunctional, as in "not functional." I think the impression is quite the opposite.  On the other hand, a response like yours, explicitly categorizing mine as something less than legitimate dialogue does, I think, degrade the quality of posting and could further the impression that nudists are uptight and incapable of discussing topics in an adult fashion--other than, perhaps, just getting naked. Just saying......"
  
  As you can see, I'm willing to engage in some substantive dialogue. I'd welcome anyone else who'd like to give it a shot. Or, are we just not up to it?
  
  Would it be too much to ask everyone to delete their own posts that do not contribute directly to this discussion?
  
  
  

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• DA

  

  danglinOriginal Poster

  Aug 14, 2012

  Yes. There is discussion. You're refusal to participate in it does not invalidate it's existence.
  
  Recent information suggests that something on the order of 50% of married US men and women have sexual relations with people other than their spouse during their marriage.
  
  Now, you can either discuss honest ways of dealing with a majority of the population, or live in denial. Your choice.
  
  Also, just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean I don't have the same opportunity to participate in an honest discussion. HERE. And NOW.  And not in some place of which you have a lowly opinion because you are unwilling to engage in discussion.
  

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• RE

  

  renebbare

  Aug 14, 2012

  Can we look at this again please?
  If 50% of married people have sex outside of their marriage - what % of those are nudists?
  More, what % of those truly nudist are here in Tn as against the more sexual and not solely nudist Ts?  I believe it is now easy to see why Danglin is being pointed towards the Swingers site.
  A point that many here miss, is that true nudists do not associate their sex with nudism - yes we all (most) have sex in it's many different forms - but we do not bring it into our nudism.
  Nude not Lewd.

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• MA

  

  ManOfWicklow

  Aug 14, 2012

  [quote]Now, you can either discuss honest ways of dealing with a majority of the population, or live in denial. Your choice.[/quote]Six out of seven people who have replied to this DO NOT agree with you.  That IS a majority, so there is your answer.

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• ME

  Member

  Aug 14, 2012

  [quote]As the OP said he is not a swinger- swingers do it together as a couple- and he doesn't. He just has an open marriage. [/quote]
  From the OP's first post: "we were fortunate enough to have another couple in our lives, and we could go out on double dates and sleep over."
  OP = Swinger

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• ME

  Member

  Aug 14, 2012

  [quote]I actually consider this one mostly an ad hominem attack, but I'd like to respond, anyway:
  
  "And I agree with DanandJanette that TrueSwingers.com would be a better
  
  place for your postYou, also, are presuming that I'm trolling. I am not.and that it's a shame that posts like this will have
  
  the effect of furthering the stereotype that nudists are
  
  sexually dysfunctional perverts.I disagree that a post like mine furthers that impression. For that matter, I disagree that there is any impression that nudists are sexually dysfunctional, as in "not functional." I think the impression is quite the opposite.  On the other hand, a response like yours, explicitly categorizing mine as something less than legitimate dialogue does, I think, degrade the quality of posting and could further the impression that nudists are uptight and incapable of discussing topics in an adult fashion--other than, perhaps, just getting naked. Just saying......[/quote]
  First off let me apologize if my response came off as an ad hominem attack.  I was not trying to attack you personally, but the topic of your post, and my reply to it has everything to do with YOUR behavior.  So, the fact that I believe infidelity to be immoral necessarily means that my position is at odds with your behavior.
  
  And for the record, my standard of morality is not a product of my own close-minded musings.  I see God's word as recorded in the Old and New Testaments as the authoritative standard for morality.
  
  Also, I do not think you are trolling.  And I'm not sure how my (and other's) suggestion that this topic is better suited for TrueSwingers equates to me thinking you are trolling.

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• CD

  

  Cheri Donna Dawson

  Aug 14, 2012

  What were your marriage vows?   Mine included being faithful.  My promises and integrity are important to me.
  

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• RA

  

  ravensflyinnow

  Aug 14, 2012

  The bottom line is...It's HIS Marriage, defined by him and her. To some it may be a sham, a travesty, a decay of moral fabric.  As long as there is love, respect, and it's between them, then what does it matter to any of us? Maybe their vows didn't include faithful, many write their own vows today. Maybe his idea of faithful means being devoted to loving his wife and having someone to have sex with. Sex and Love are different. Men and women masturbate outside of the marital bed. Its just sex.  Anyways, its a discussion, not a platform to judge. Whats right for one, may not be right for all.
  

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• SU

  sunnmaxx

  Aug 14, 2012

  What do you tell the kids when they see you with arms around another?  Most couples we know that are swingers or "share" have ended in divorce.
  

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• SO

  

  Soupie

  Aug 14, 2012

  Would that account entirely for the over 50% divorce rate?

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• RA

  

  ravensflyinnow

  Aug 14, 2012

  [quote]What do you tell the kids when they see you with arms around another?  Most couples we know that are swingers or "share" have ended in divorce.
  [/quote]I'll go 1 step further...Most couples I know  have ended in divorce.
  Sex is usually something private, and not done in the company of your children.
  
  Maybe, if we, as a society, were less concerned about other peoples marriages, our own marriages would do much better.
  This could be useful in another thread as well.
  
  
  

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• SO

  

  Soupie

  Aug 14, 2012

  Nor is it a place for you and your vile gutter references to decide what people can say and do on this site.  But you continue.

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• ME

  Member

  Aug 14, 2012

  [quote]how many couple marry and swear to be faithful and then cheat and lie. Do they have a better marriage, because it is based on ignorance?[/quote]
  
  Neither the adultery of an "open marriage" nor the adultery of a traditional marriage is honoring to God or the other spouse.  Adultery in any context is immoral and destructive.  A husband's obligation is to love his wife with a sacrificial love.  It's to forsake all others for her.
  
  It really should be a picture of the gospel.  Christ loved the church by laying down his life for her.  He pursues her in spite of her imperfections and purifies her and makes her his own.
  
  A marriage marked by self-serving gratification is a cheap substitute and it's promises for satisfaction are hollow.

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• SO

  

  Soupie

  Aug 14, 2012

  Yes, and Leviticus (the word of god) says that if your wife is menstruating, you should isolate her in a hut and not touch her, because she is unclean.
  Now tell me that Christians don't have to abide by the first 5 books of the bible while you use it to condemn homosexuality.

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• DA

  DanandJanette

  Aug 14, 2012

  [quote]The bottom line is...It's HIS Marriage, defined by him and her. To some it may be a sham, a travesty, a decay of moral fabric.  As long as there is love, respect, and it's between them, then what does it matter to any of us? Maybe their vows didn't include faithful, many write their own vows today. Maybe his idea of faithful means being devoted to loving his wife and having someone to have sex with. Sex and Love are different. Men and women masturbate outside of the marital bed. Its just sex.  Anyways, its a discussion, not a platform to judge. Whats right for one, may not be right for all.
  [/quote]    TELL ME WHY IT BELONGS IN THIS FORUM??
  

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• SO

  

  Soupie

  Aug 14, 2012

  gollum, it's your fellow travellers on the right who pull bible verses out of context.  Like the Westboro Baptists.

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