Aren’t all naturists/nudists voyeurs and exhibitionists?

nuderunrOriginal Poster

Apr 15, 2009

One of the most common general misconceptions about nudism is that nudists are just voyeurs and/or exhibitionists. Nudism is not equivalent to voyeurism or exhibitionism. Naturists/nudists are people who simply enjoy being nude. They are not primarily interested in seeing others naked (voyeurism) or being seen naked by others (exhibitionism).

Both voyeurism and exhibitionism are defined as paraphilias and are listed in the American Psychiatric Association, Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. Paraphilias are recurrent, intense, sexually arousing fantasies, urges, or behaviors that can be distressing or disabling and that involve inanimate objects, children or other non-consenting adults. Paraphilias include sexual behaviors that society may view as distasteful, unusual or abnormal. People with a paraphilia often have an impaired or nonexistent capacity for affectionate, reciprocal emotional and sexual intimacy with a consenting partner. The sexual arousal and gratification of persons who suffer from paraphilias are dependent on fantasizing about and engaging in sexual behavior that is atypical and extreme. Most paraphilias are far more common in men than in women.

Voyeurism is achievement of sexual arousal by observing people who are naked, disrobing, or engaging in sexual activity. Desire to watch others in sexual situations is common and not in itself abnormal but when individuals spend inordinate amounts of effort and time seeking out viewing opportunities and their observations are of non-consenting, unsuspecting people with the intent of achieving arousal and sexual gratification, then the behavior is recognized as voyeurism and considered both abnormal and a psychiatric disorder.

Exhibitionism is characterized by achievement of sexual excitement through genital exposure, most usually to an unsuspecting stranger. It may also refer to a strong desire to be observed by other people during sexual activity. Exhibitionists (usually male) may masturbate while exposing or fantasizing about exposing themselves. They manifest the need to surprise, shock, or impress the unwilling observer. Usually, the behavior has a furtive quality. The exposure happens quickly and sometimes is even staged to appear done in a seemingly accidental manner. Some exhibitionists (“flashers”) are more provocative or threatening in their behavior, stepping in front of another person in public and exposing themselves, waiting for a reaction. In many cases, it is the reaction that the exhibitionist seeks.

As you can see, the focus of voyeurism and exhibitionism is not on simple nudity but on sexual arousal and gratification. Also persons with these disorders are heavily dependent on situations involving unsuspecting and non-consenting persons. In a nudist social setting these factors are not present as all are nude and mutually exhibiting themselves by choice and their presence in the setting operates as effective consent for others present to view their nudity. There is no atmosphere of non-consent or any opportunity for anyone to be surprised, shocked or impressed by anyone’s exposure. Thus it is difficult to imagine that a voyeur or exhibitionist would find a nudist gathering an attractive venue for plying their behavior. Generally the only voyeurs that can be found around nudists are in situations involving nude beaches and the voyeurs are generally clothed and identified by the sunlight glinting off camera or binocular lenses.

While the behavior may appear similar, exhibitionists and nudists are worlds apart. A nudist or naturist is an individual who enjoys living as much as possible in the nude. It is the sensuality, not the sexuality of being nude that nudists celebrate; the feel of the sun and elements on bare skin. Nudists do not gain sexual gratification from being nude; it is simply their most comfortable state. Nudists do not impose their bareness on others but choose venues such as naturist resorts or nude beaches where they can enjoy being nude without being observed by those who might be offended by nudity.

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Swifthawk
Apr 15, 2009
Nuderuner, like all of your posts, this is VERY well said. Are you in politics or with some...what's the word I'm looking for...those people who go after politicians trying to....lobbiest! Hehe...don't mind my brain, anyways, would you be anything like that by chance? Because you should consider it. There are not many people online who can express thier views as clearly and eloquently than what I've seen from you.

Aaanyways, don't stop too suddenly or you might get my nose up your butt. lol....Back to the original post, I don't think there's too much that I can add, you've kind of said it all. I do think that it will take many years of constant advising to the general public about our way of life in order to wipe out generations of anti-nude sentiment. I think we are getting there slowly but surely, however with people like you representing our community it will go even quicker I'm sure!
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nuderunrOriginal Poster
Apr 15, 2009
Awww thank you so much Swifty. I appreciate your kind words and encouragement!
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Philfreeeuk
Apr 15, 2009
[quote]Nuderuner, like all of your posts, this is VERY well said. Are you in politics or with some...what's the word I'm looking for...those people who go after politicians trying to....lobbiest! Hehe...don't mind my brain, anyways, would you be anything like that by chance? Because you should consider it. There are not many people online who can express thier views as clearly and eloquently than what I've seen from you. Aaanyways, don't stop too suddenly or you might get my nose up your butt. lol....Back to the original post, I don't think there's too much that I can add, you've kind of said it all. I do think that it will take many years of constant advising to the general public about our way of life in order to wipe out generations of anti-nude sentiment. I think we are getting there slowly but surely, however with people like you representing our community it will go even quicker I'm sure![/quote] Swifty, you said it all again, which is great, cos it saves me typing :) Just one thing to add nuderunr, Quote, "identified by the sunlight glinting off camera or binocular lenses." hehe, .........Boy do YOU learn fast ! Thanks for yet another great post. Phil.
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krisna
Apr 19, 2009
I absolutely agree with u, Naturist is not related with it.. we just enjoy being nude, feel naturally, and respect the other....
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ocmick
Apr 19, 2009
thanks nuderunner...it's a shame that more folks don't really understand...
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valley_nudies
Apr 20, 2009
[quote]Nuderuner, like all of your posts, this is VERY well said. Are you in politics or with some...what's the word I'm looking for...those people who go after politicians trying to....lobbiest! Hehe...don't mind my brain, anyways, would you be anything like that by chance? Because you should consider it. There are not many people online who can express thier views as clearly and eloquently than what I've seen from you. Aaanyways, don't stop too suddenly or you might get my nose up your butt. lol....Back to the original post, I don't think there's too much that I can add, you've kind of said it all. I do think that it will take many years of constant advising to the general public about our way of life in order to wipe out generations of anti-nude sentiment. I think we are getting there slowly but surely, however with people like you representing our community it will go even quicker I'm sure![/quote] Nuderunr, considering the posts on the NRA, this one and all of the others, we would like you to be our unofficial lobbyist for nudism.
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nuderunrOriginal Poster
Apr 20, 2009
[quote][quote]Nuderuner, like all of your posts, this is VERY well said. Are you in politics or with some...what's the word I'm looking for...those people who go after politicians trying to....lobbiest! Hehe...don't mind my brain, anyways, would you be anything like that by chance? Because you should consider it. There are not many people online who can express thier views as clearly and eloquently than what I've seen from you. Aaanyways, don't stop too suddenly or you might get my nose up your butt. lol....Back to the original post, I don't think there's too much that I can add, you've kind of said it all. I do think that it will take many years of constant advising to the general public about our way of life in order to wipe out generations of anti-nude sentiment. I think we are getting there slowly but surely, however with people like you representing our community it will go even quicker I'm sure![/quote] Nuderunr, considering the posts on the NRA, this one and all of the others, we would like you to be our unofficial lobbyist for nudism.[/quote] Well thank you so much for your kind words! Actually I have become so convinced of the value of wholesome social nudity and nude recreation: mentally, socially and health wise that I actually am contemplating how I might do more to serve as a positive advocate for it.
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A
Apr 21, 2009
Hi all!
Would like to bring to your info a few observations made throughout over quarter of a century of nude lifestyle.
Actually seems (IMHO) that about 20-30% of people endorsing nude lifestyle do get at least partly motivated by either voyerism, exhibitionism or both. That is easy to see in nude get-togethers and beaches when analysing people's actions. On the other hand, in most cases I - or most people I know - are not disturbed by majority of those people. They simply seem to enjoy being admired or to look at people they find interesting/attractive. As long as they do it in a manner that is not offensive, I have no problems in accepting them amongst the nudies. Just the border between actions that are OK and those that (some) people interprete as offensive does vary somewhat. I also would like to add that this phenomenon is not anyhow typical for nudies. Going to textile beaches one can see same kind of behaviour - even in more obvious ways - so it is rather a general human feature than one particularly associated with nude lifestyle.
Then of course are those occasional wankers or others whose behaviour crosses boundaries of acceptable, but they rarely seem to be people who endorse nude lifestyle in general. Besides, I don't mind what people do as long as things happen between consenting adults, just certain activities should be kept strictly in circles of people whose consent is known and not assumed.
Travel Nudie, aka Aki
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Tony
Apr 27, 2009
[quote][quote][/quote] Well thank you so much for your kind words! Actually I have become so convinced of the value of wholesome social nudity and nude recreation: mentally, socially and health wise that I actually am contemplating how I might do more to serve as a positive advocate for it.[/quote] nuderunr, you'd make a fantastic advocate for nudism. I hope you're able to find an advocacy role, as you'd do well. You express yourself very well, and get the essence of nudism across in a straightforward way that is easily understood. Keep up the good posts.
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Noblefriend
Apr 29, 2009
These are the people who give nudism a bad name. If i would have experienced this during my first experience with social nudism I wouldn't participate in social nudism again or be very reluctant in doing so.
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Canoodler
Apr 29, 2009
I have to jump on the "Reality is out there too" bandwagon. Definitions aside, Nudrunr completely missed the calling of SOCIAL nudism. Fine, nudists like to be nude, we get that. But why do you want to be nude with others? Well, that takes ALL types. I am neither a gawker nor a wanker but I would say that I am a bit of a voyeur and an exhibitionist because I like to see and be seen. I don't in any way appreciate guys who victimize women. I wish nude venues could screen them out entirely. To want to see is not necessarily to stare at crotches. It certainly isn't for me. And one reason I like to be seen is to promote the happy enjoyment I get in just being naked in nature. I appreciate a beautiful woman as much as the next guy, and hey, I'm pretty sure they like to be appreciated. Some work very hard at looking their best. There really is room for all kinds, as long as they show and engender respect. I'm not a saint, and I don't really enjoy hanging with the type either. I'd rather spend my time with human beings, and just a little bit of "naughty" runs through the veins of all of those that I've met so far.
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ME
Member
Apr 29, 2009
[quote]I think Fatpizzaman does have a point here. True, if you take a narrow clinical definition of exhibitionism and voyeurism, these traits are rarely observed in nudist settings. But there's certainly a lot of inappropriate behaviour going on. Some of the things I've seen at the clothes-optional section of Brighton's public beach include: a M/F couple having penetrative sex, M/M couples fondling each others genitals, guys walking around with erections, lone female sunbathers rapidly being surrounded by half a dozen gawkers, including guys who plonk themselves a couple of metres away and stare at her pubic area while openly masturbating. You can say that these people aren't genuine nudists, but that would indeed be to commit the "no true Scotsman" fallacy.[/quote] I see what you and fatpizzaman are saying, but I think the point here is that there is a misconception in the textile world that nudism/naturism equates to exhibitionism/voyuerism. And until that myth is expelled nudism will never be given true merit in the textile world. There will always be a percentage of deviants in any given "lifestyle", but the need to correct the fallacy that ALL nudists are deviants is important. Frankly, I've seen more "unacceptable" behaviour in textile venues than I have seen in nudist venues, mainly because the majority of nudists have zero tolerance for behavior that will set back their choice to be nude. Jen
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nuderunrOriginal Poster
Apr 29, 2009
[quote]I think Fatpizzaman does have a point here. True, if you take a narrow clinical definition of exhibitionism and voyeurism, these traits are rarely observed in nudist settings. But there's certainly a lot of inappropriate behaviour going on. Some of the things I've seen at the clothes-optional section of Brighton's public beach include: a M/F couple having penetrative sex, M/M couples fondling each others genitals, guys walking around with erections, lone female sunbathers rapidly being surrounded by half a dozen gawkers, including guys who plonk themselves a couple of metres away and stare at her pubic area while openly masturbating. You can say that these people aren't genuine nudists, but that would indeed be to commit the "no true Scotsman" fallacy.[/quote] Simply observing that recreational sex and exhibitionist conduct is not mainstream nudist behavior I feel is taking neither a narrow or clinical perspective. Couples engaging in public sex as you described having observed at Brighton’s beach clothes optional section certainly does not fall within the definition of traditional naturism. My original point was in fact that the focus for nudists is simply the enjoyment of being nude not on the achievement of sexual gratification. I do agree with Fatpizzaman’s point that nudists as a whole may not be “pure, holier than textiles” types. We all, whether nudists or textiles are produced from one society and of course taken as a group in its entirety, are no more virtuous or moral than any other separate segment that one might care to examine. Different people have different motivations for engaging in social nudity as I observed in my original post. For those of us who identity with naturism, it is the simple pleasures that come from being nude in a communal setting. For the “alternative lifestylers” it is recreational sex. So I do take issue with: “In a nutshell, this sort of lip-service and candy coating our lifestyle does no favours to help it gain respect from the outside world when/if somebody was to come across nudists like this.” The idea that traditional naturists or nudists should accept people who engage in penetrative sex and fondling in a public place as legitimate nudist expression is preposterous. Clearly this kind of conduct transcends any sense of the sort and just as clearly falls within the bounds of lewdness. Not only should we not regard those who engage in this conduct as genuine nudists, I feel we have an obligation to confront people who engage in this kind of behavior because that in fact is truly something that does our lifestyle no favors and causes the textile community to look upon nudists with disfavor and hostility. I agree that there is some degree of exhibitionism and voyeurism within the “genuine” nudist community, but it is generally of a harmless variety. Mild feelings of enjoying others seeing us nude or in seeing others nude I don’t feel is a huge problem as long as that is not the primary focus. And I am not attempting to take “swingers” to task as far as condemning their interest in recreational sex. I just maintain that they should restrict their activities to appropriate venues and not engage in it on public clothing optional beaches. Tolerating such activities invites the scrutiny of the textile community, their disgust and ultimate opposition towards all nudists. The average member of the textile community does not differentiate between naturists and those who get naked in public with less altruistic motivations, we all get tarred by the same brush. My original point stands, exhibitionism and voyeurism, when the focus on sexual arousal and gratification, is not genuine nudist behavior or a part of our lifestyle.
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A
Apr 29, 2009
I think we have here two separate issues. One is what goes on in reality in nude environment and is within acceptable there - and what again is not. Another is the need to convince textiles about "normality" of nude community and what kind of information to hand out - or to dement - in that regard. No doubt it is a difficult task if internally there is a need to emphasize a bit different aspects (mainly how to keep the "pervs" out and which are the limits of acceptable public nude behaviour) than externally (nudity is same kind of pastime than what textiles do, only difference is abstinence of attire). And there we come even within the community to some contradictory things. Some people like to emphasize the "asexuality" of nude lifestyle, wheras there are others who like to bring out more open and natural attitude towards things that sexual.
I guess we nevertheless can agree that to our community fit all people who enjoy nude lifestyle and recreation in a way that is not offensive towards others, no matter what their personal preferences might be.
On the other hand to outside world there is need to emphasize that nudies are just like anyone, except for the preference of clothes-free life.
Travel Nudie aka Aki
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Miss_Linda
May 1, 2009
Do this.
Don't do that.
Can't you read the sign?
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nuderunrOriginal Poster
May 1, 2009
Hey! That reminds me of that song from the 70s by Five Man Electrical Band…“And the sign said long haired freaky people need not apply So I tucked my hair up under my hat and I went in to ask him why He said you look like a fine upstanding young man, I think you'll do So I took off my hat I said imagine that, huh, me working for you woah!”“Sign Sign everywhere a sign Blocking out the scenery breaking my mind Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign”I loved that song.
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Miss_Linda
May 1, 2009
Yes, that's where it came from. This thread reminded me of the song. There are so many rules because everyone has different opinions. Someone has to be right and everyone else is wrong. Presumably everyone here likes to be naked as much as possible. Why can't we all agree to disagree sometimes and get along the rest of the time?
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Canoodler
May 8, 2009
I like your thinking Just Friends. I think you are probably right on the money. I'll go for a 25,25, 50 split. Mostly it's about just being out there, comfortable and cool. I hate sweating into my clothes. When I'm at home, with my kids, I couldn't care less about being seen or seeing, but when I'm out on the trail or at a club, there is something strangely alluring just knowing you're eliciting reactions to your uncovered bod. It's just something we don't get much of in a textile community.
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Canoodler
May 8, 2009
I have to again add my two cents. Nudrunr states that "Nudists do not impose their bareness on others but choose venues such as naturist resorts or nude beaches where they can enjoy being nude without being observed by those who might be offended by nudity."
Where does he get this stuff? Since when is this the definition (if we even need one) of a nudist? I, and many others here, have been 'caught in the buff' by neighbours, friends and strangers while engaged in nothing but being nude. What are we? Something OTHER than a nudist? Is Nudrunr an expert here or has his limited experience with social nudism (2 months and counting) given him insight that we 35 year veterans lack?
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George_in_WV
May 10, 2009
I live in a clothing optional community and am nude all the time except when I have to dress to go to town for shopping and other errands. I am quite comfortable nude and that is why I spend most of my time nude. I do not consider myself to be an exhibitionist because my intent is not to shock or offend other people like a flasher. Here my neighbors are nude themselves and could care less if I am nude or dressed. I do not consider myself to be a voyeur as the reason I live here is not so I can look at naked people. Here nudity is the norm and the way l and my neighbors live. We are not looking for sexual excitement we just enjoy being able to go around without uncomfortable clothing on.
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ME
Member
Jun 27, 2009
Edited out. Spammer is now gone.
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Philfreeeuk
Nov 19, 2009
Another great post for the newbie!
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NakedBadger
Nov 28, 2009
This is an interesting exchange and I think it's important. I think we have to hear the voices that talk about the "shadow side" of nudism: the lurkers, the voyeurs, those that exploit and victimize the innocent. I think we should never be too naive about what "could" happen out there in "naked-naked-land". And yet, I think that NudeRunr has said something pretty important when he writes, [quote]While the behavior may appear similar, exhibitionists and nudists are worlds apart. A nudist or naturist is an individual who enjoys living as much as possible in the nude. It is the sensuality, not the sexuality of being nude that nudists celebrate; the feel of the sun and elements on bare skin. Nudists do not gain sexual gratification from being nude; it is simply their most comfortable state. Nudists do not impose their bareness on others but choose venues such as naturist resorts or nude beaches where they can enjoy being nude without being observed by those who might be offended by nudity.[/quote] The more we hear such positive expressions about naked living, and the more we are able to live up to the ideals (and it is an idealistic, but not unrealistic, thing that NudRnr makes a case for) the more and the sooner we'll be able to live in a world that has more places for healthy, honest, social recreation that isnuderecreation. Thanks for your work and for your way of expressing your conclusions, NudeRunr! Badger
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catbird
Nov 28, 2009
[quote][quote]While the behavior may appear similar, exhibitionists and nudists are worlds apart. A nudist or naturist is an individual who enjoys living as much as possible in the nude. It is the sensuality, not the sexuality of being nude that nudists celebrate; the feel of the sun and elements on bare skin. Nudists do not gain sexual gratification from being nude; it is simply their most comfortable state. Nudists do not impose their bareness on others but choose venues such as naturist resorts or nude beaches where they can enjoy being nude without being observed by those who might be offended by nudity.[/quote] [/quote] Excellent stating the facts about nudism. There is nothing like feeling the sun and breeze on your bare skin. That doesn't sexually arouse me.
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